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CONLANG  March 2012, Week 5

CONLANG March 2012, Week 5

Subject:

Re: Languages with voiced-unvoiced consonant clusters

From:

Matthew Boutilier <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 31 Mar 2012 22:25:34 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (132 lines)

>
> does assimilation occur in Arabic when consonants of different
> voicing are juxtaposed?
>

arabic does not have /p/, so, so much for that part of the question. this
is going to be a pretty non-technical answer, but after going through my
mental 'sound clips' i'm going to say that syllable final consonant
clusters (since the maximum syllable is CV(:)CC) do *not* have voicing
assimilation going on except for /r/, which has a voiceless allophone when
it follows voiceless consonants. thus
/badr/ "full moon" = [bædr], but
/fitˤr/ "breakfast" = [fɪtˤr̥]
contrast with, e.g., the voiced /ʕ/ and voiceless /ħ/ pharyngeal
fricatives, which are well distinguished after voiced and voiceless cluster
onsets alike:
/rubʕ/ "one-fourth" = [ɾʊbʕ], but
/sˤubħ/ "morning" = [sˤʊbħ].
same goes for [zt] vs. [st], etc. i'm having difficulty coming up with
examples ending in /ts/ and /tz/.

matt


On Sat, Mar 31, 2012 at 9:47 PM, MorphemeAddict <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> I meant, does assimilation occur in Arabic when consonants of different
> voicing are juxtaposed?
>
> stevo
>
> On Sat, Mar 31, 2012 at 10:14 PM, Padraic Brown <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
> > --- On Sat, 3/31/12, MorphemeAddict <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >
> > > Arabic is rather fearless about juxtaposing different consonants. Does
> > > assimilation occur?
> >
> > In Anian? No -- but I dó think that all the horrible clusters must be the
> > result of some kind of weird vowel loss back during the Old Oritanian
> > period. I don't know a whole lot about the language as of yet, so it is
> > possible that assimilations occur. I just don't know where or how or why
> > yet.
> >
> > Of the daughter languages, some undergo considerable cluster
> simplification
> > while one or two retain a high level of complexity. For example, Anian
> > "tcani" (rune or wise saying) becomes "cânis" in Hoosickite; "ctlapmi"
> > (leg) becomes "clamen". Pendarvian is said to retain the clusters.
> Hecklan,
> > if it turns out to be a relative of Anian at all, has certainly altered
> > some Anian words: Anian "hhtcrmîr" (city) becomes "cramion" in Hecklan.
> >
> > The history of Anian, which was the native language of Oriata, one of the
> > Archaic Empires of the Eastlands, has a history going back some 10 to 15
> > thousand years. As a language of philosophical scripture, it has been
> quite
> > resistant to change, and since the destruction of Oriata and the other
> > ancient empires in the region, it has long since ceased to be a spoken or
> > living language. In this respect, it is much like Sussian, another
> > philosophical language of the area, though perhaps not quite so old.
> >
> > Very few records of Old Oritanian are extant -- just some fragments of
> > monumental inscription -- and the syllabary used is not the same as that
> > of the later language. One fairly certain O.Or. word is
> HE-TUGQILLIMIILUN,
> > meaning "within the City". If that's the ancestor of "hhtcrmîr", then
> > quite a lot of vowel loss and other changes have happened within the
> > language!
> >
> > Padraic
> >
> > >
> > > stevo
> > >
> > > On Sat, Mar 31, 2012 at 4:47 PM, Padraic Brown <[log in to unmask]>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > --- On Sat, 3/31/12, Miles Forster <[log in to unmask]>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > are there any languages that don't make use of
> > > > > devoicing/voicing in consonant clusters? That is,
> > > are there
> > > > > languages in which a consonant cluster such as
> > > [sb] or [pz]
> > > > > is found and where these are distinguished from
> > > the
> > > > > assimilated versions [sp]/[zb] and [bz]/[ps]?
> > > >
> > > > Anian would be the best bet for such a thing among my
> > > languages, but it
> > > > seems to studiously avoid VL+V consonant clusters (I'm
> > > not counting things
> > > > like K + L, because L and R (well, and other
> > > continuants) are typically
> > > > syllabic and so don't really form "consonant"
> > > clusters). For that matter,
> > > > it shares with other languages of the Eastlands a
> > > marked preference for
> > > > VL consonants. D is common enough, but B is rare and I
> > > don't think I have
> > > > a G in the lexicon. Has some Vs and perhaps one Z that
> > > I can find.
> > > >
> > > > Anian is otherwise rather fearless as far as consonant
> > > clusters are
> > > > concerned. Some represent actual vowelless syllables: F
> > > is the most common
> > > > of the "consonants" that form syllabic segments:
> > > F-TANUM (trisyllabic)
> > > > would be distinct from FTANUM (disyllabic). M, N, L
> > > & R commonly form
> > > > syllabic segments, either alone or in combination with
> > > one or more other
> > > > consonants. Others represent coarticulated stops or a
> > > sort of rapid fire
> > > > serial articulation of two or more stops. So, clusters
> > > like PKRINIO is
> > > > actually [p] and [k] said at the same time; but
> > > PTKRRTUM is [p-t-k]
> > > > enunciated separately but in very rapid succession with
> > > no intervening
> > > > vowel or other flow of air.
> > > >
> > > > Padraic
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

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