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CONLANG  April 2012, Week 1

CONLANG April 2012, Week 1

Subject:

Re: Random Ramblings on the Process of Coining Words

From:

MorphemeAddict <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 2 Apr 2012 16:45:25 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (145 lines)

Compared to all this artistic soul-searching, my strategy for creating new
words is trivial. I started with a word-structure of ((V)C*)V(C), where the
final consonant, if present, is determined by the word's part of speech.
The other vowel and consonant(s) are selected arbitrarily using Excel's
RANDom function, with length determined by frequency of the word in
Esperanto texts. Is the final result pretty, mellifluous? Maybe not, but
it's very consistent (maybe TOO consistent). Whenever I need a new word, I
just take the next one off the pile of unused forms.

stevo

On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 4:37 PM, Sam Stutter <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> On 2 Apr 2012, at 20:46, Jörg Rhiemeier wrote:
>
> > Hallo conlangers!
> >
> > On Sun, 1 Apr 2012 12:48:44 -0700 Gary Shannon wrote:
> >
> >> I have usually created words for a conlang by having some rules of
> >> morphology that I used to construct a word from a root, usually picked
> >> at random. Then after I have a bunch of words to work with I start
> >> making sentences and the first thing I discover is that the language
> >> sounds ugly. The sentences don't flow, and the words don't join
> >> together smoothly.
> >
> > A smooth flow of a conlang is indeed not easy to achieve.  Many
> > beginners' conlangs feel as if they were assembled from LEGO(R)
> > bricks or the like - the morphology is cookie-cutter regular
> > with junctures wide open, the words bite each other, the whole
> > thing sounds like gibberish or Pig Latin and not like an
> > organically grown language.  I admit that avoiding this and
> > coming up with a coherent, beautiful conlang is difficult.
> > Languages such as Quenya or Kēlen were not cobbled together in
> > a fortnight; they were honed and refined over *years*.
>
> We've all been there.
>
> >
> > You once wrote that you design languages without defining a
> > phonology, perhaps that is part of the problem?  It is rules
> > of phonology that give a language a coherent sound and smoothes
> > out the seams between the morphemes.  Even such highly regular
> > languages as Turkish have a coherent sound because there are
> > well-defined phonological rules.
>
> I find "hearing the speakers" before actually coining any words really
> helps. I know that there *is* the right sound out there, because I can hear
> it being spoken, it's just like trying to remember that dream you had last
> night. It's more of a process of holistic reconstruction rather than top-up
> construction (even though that's what you're *really* doing).
>
> >
> >> It occurred to me that natlangs never create new words all at once,
> >> and in isolation. Instead, in natlangs, words are born gradually, over
> >> a long period of time, by whittling on existing ancestral words in
> >> context, sanding down the rough edges, and finding the ways in which
> >> they can best be made to fit, like jigsaw puzzle pieces, into the
> >> sentences in which they appear.
> >
> > Right.  And the best way to emulate this in a conlang is to
> > start with a "protolang", i.e. another conlang that is then
> > subjected to a simulated linguistic history with sound changes,
> > semantic shifts and the like.  At least that is the way to go
> > if you want something naturalistic; it makes much less sense
> > with an auxlang or a loglang.
>
> Well, maybe not, I've never done that. But going through a dictionary and
> just randomly coining words is only going to get you so far.
>
> >
> >> But those new words were not the result of applying sound change rules
> >> either. Sound change "rules" are after the fact. They are descriptions
> >> of what happened. But what happened was not the application of a rule
> >> to the word, but the result of constant use of the word in various
> >> contexts. Like throwing a rock into a tumbler with a handful of
> >> abrasive grit, what was a rough, ugly thing becomes smooth and
> >> beautiful. My conlangs all suffer from being made of rough, ugly words
> >> instead of smooth, beautiful ones.
> >
> > A fairly apt comparison, I think.  Sound changes, as they are
> > found in historical grammars of languages, are indeed descriptions
> > of what happened through centuries of usage of the languages.
> > In the Middle Ages, the Romance languages were considered worn-out
> > dialects of Latin; as much as it does injustice to the self-
> > containment of the relevant languages, that is not entirely inept,
> > as it was indeed the wear and tear of daily usage that transformed
> > Latin into Spanish, Portuguese, French, Italian, Romanian and all
> > the others.
> >
> >> So the idea occurred to me to work on my conlang coinages several
> >> sentences at a time instead of one word at a time. Instead of trying
> >> to come up with the word for "brook" based on some morphology, come up
> >> with half a dozen sentences about brooks, and plug my rough, ugly word
> >> into each of those sentences, and say the sentences aloud, over and
> >> over, discovering how the word needs to be shaped and molded to fit
> >> smoothly into each and every sentence. If the brook could speak, what
> >> would it call itself? Tumbling over the smooth rocks, twisting and
> >> turning, but always within its banks, comfortable with its course.
> >
> > That may perhaps work, and is at least worth trying out.  It may
> > not be as good as the proper diachronic method (i.e., applying
> > sound changes, semantic shifts etc. to a conlang) which I use,
> > for instance, in Old Albic, but it may well result in a nice-
> > sounding conlang.
>
> I prefer to be more hands on. Don't just write about them, go and find
> one! (Although this doesn't necessarily work when it comes to, say, tigers).
>
> >
> >> But you can't know the brook without knowing the banks that contain
> >> it, and you can't know the word for brook without knowing the
> >> sentences that contain it. The word must be fitted to its context. It
> >> must be grown in a specific environment, not in a vacuum. It must be
> >> surrounded by prepositions and adjectives, it must be singular and
> >> plural, subject and object, and the final polished product must fit
> >> smoothly into each of those contexts.
> >>
> >> All of this makes me wonder if perhaps the best vehicle for building a
> >> conlang lexicon might not be primers and readers, but original poetry
> >> written in the conlang. If a conlang can do poetry well, then it can
> >> probably do a nice job of spoken prose as well.
> >
> > Yes, that is true.  Poetry is a good performance test for a conlang,
> > better than primers.  So far, I have not written actual poetry in
> > Old Albic, but a prose version of a creation myth is under
> > construction, and it turned out that writing such texts is a good
> > way of rounding out a conlang.
>
> I would say not just poetry, but any sort of writing which might have
> particular concultural significance, like creation myths, folk stories and
> declarations of independence.
>
> >
> > --
> > ... brought to you by the Weeping Elf
> > http://www.joerg-rhiemeier.de/Conlang/index.html
> > "Bêsel asa Êm, a Êm atha cvanthal a cvanth atha Êmel." - SiM 1:1
>
>
> Sam Stutter
> [log in to unmask]
> "No e na'l cu barri"
>

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May 2006, Week 2
May 2006, Week 1
April 2006, Week 5
April 2006, Week 4
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April 2006, Week 2
April 2006, Week 1
March 2006, Week 5
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December 2005, Week 5
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December 2004, Week 5
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June 2003, Week 5
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March 2003, Week 5
March 2003, Week 4
March 2003, Week 3
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March 2003, Week 1
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February 2003, Week 1
January 2003, Week 5
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January 2003, Week 3
January 2003, Week 2
January 2003, Week 1
December 2002, Week 5
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December 2002, Week 2
December 2002, Week 1
November 2002, Week 5
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November 2002, Week 3
November 2002, Week 2
November 2002, Week 1
October 2002, Week 5
October 2002, Week 4
October 2002, Week 3
October 2002, Week 2
October 2002, Week 1
September 2002, Week 5
September 2002, Week 4
September 2002, Week 3
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September 2002, Week 1
August 2002, Week 5
August 2002, Week 4
August 2002, Week 3
August 2002, Week 2
August 2002, Week 1
July 2002, Week 5
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July 2002, Week 3
July 2002, Week 2
July 2002, Week 1
June 2002, Week 5
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May 2002, Week 1
April 2002, Week 5
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April 2002, Week 1
March 2002, Week 5
March 2002, Week 4
March 2002, Week 3
March 2002, Week 2
March 2002, Week 1
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December 2001, Week 1
November 2001, Week 5
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October 2001, Week 1
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May 2001, Week 1
April 2001, Week 5
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February 2000, Week 1
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December 1999, Week 5
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December 1998, Week 5
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