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AUXLANG  April 2012, Week 2

AUXLANG April 2012, Week 2

Subject:

Re: Strange introduction to Volapük

From:

Stephen Rice <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 12 Apr 2012 01:41:40 -0600

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (80 lines)

On 4/11/12, Michael Everson <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> On 11 Apr 2012, at 05:16, Stephen Rice wrote:
>
>> The lexicon has grown; that's only to be expected.
>
> True, but if you want to use Volapük Rigik, you're stuck inventing
> vocabulary on your own. Or in the 19th century.

I don't believe I ever expressed an interest in producing text
(original or translated) in it; I just said I prefer the original. If
I wished to use Vp for writing, I could probably borrow a fair number
of roots from de Jong. I've considered a steampunk story where Vp had
won in Europe and the Americas, and I could use the dJ version for
slang...

>> But the feel is different in a way I find hard to put into words.
>
> Interesting. Might examples help?
>
>> Some of the original features I don't even like particularly, but I still
>> prefer them.
>
> Of the accidence, or the phonology?

If you read the post first, you can answer several of your own questions.

>> The pronouns nowadays are rather boring and tidy; the original conflated
>> masculine and neuter in a delightfully non-PC fashion. I will say modern
>> oy generates precisely that response from me, so I
>> guess it's well chosen.
>
> I think I understand what you mean. "Kim labom dogi?" would probably be "Kin
> labon dogi?" in a neutral question today, where the owner was not known. Is
> that what you mean? I admit I have studied Volapük Nulik grammar more than
> Volapük Rigik grammar.
>
> VN: ob; ol, or; om, of, on, oy, os, ok, od
> VR: ob; ol, -- ; om, of, os, on, --, --, --
>
> Is that right?

Om is masculine, neuter, or mixed/undetermined; ok and os are the same
in both versions; and balvotik was the original of od.

>> You formed tens from units by pluralizing (a gimmick taken from Hebrew!),
>> but now it's the same as in any other auxlang. Blah. Modernists may have
>> "deg," but they've lost what the originals had.
>
> I can't say I like learning numbers in any language. I do find Volapük
> numbers to be quite opaque, but there's no reforming it. VR "kils" 'thirty'
> would mean 'threes' in VN, if I understand it right. But then, VN can say
> 'threes' and VR can't...

VR wouldn't want to say "threes": it's an English form. It can,
however, say "kilanums," which means the same thing. Actually,
"threes" is ambiguous, so there are probably several ways of
expressing the various meanings involved.

>> And thus Volapük has gone from being the eccentric or even howling looney
>> uncle of the auxlang family to something just as hardcore unemployable (an
>> old family tradition) but bland.
>
> Uncle? Aunt, surely.

Negative: it wears the pants in the family.

But not mother?

And now you're getting Freudian. Weird relatives are typically uncles
or occasionally cousins.

Anyway I don't know about unemployable,
> as a book of short stories and Alice are coming out this year.
> "Unemployable" as an auxlang, perhaps, but then isn't adoption of any of
> them rather unlikely?

That's why I called it a family tradition.

Steve

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