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CONLANG  April 2012, Week 5

CONLANG April 2012, Week 5

Subject:

Re: About Professional Conlangers I've Studied

From:

Jörg Rhiemeier <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 1 May 2012 00:32:11 +0200

Content-Type:

Text/Plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

Text/Plain (108 lines)

Hallo conlangers!

On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 07:04:10 -0400 "Gimli G. Willikers" wrote:

> Frommer is no conlanger, but neither was Okrand.  Their heart wasn't
> in it like the guys I've seen on Zompist.

Frommer and Okrand made conlangs - they are thus conlangers,
aren't they?  Sure, their hired jobs, which probably had to be
finished within tight deadlines, can't compare with the years of
love and dedication that went into the self-commissioned
creations of people like Tolkien or Rosenfelder (or many of the
people here or on the ZBB), but saying that "Frommer is no
conlanger, but neither was Okrand" surely pushes the limits of
the definition of "conlanger".  You should be less dismissive
towards them.

When the Dothraki bid was open, I briefly considered placing
a bid - but I decided not to because I felt that I would
probably meet difficult working conditions; also, I then knew
nothing about the _Song of Ice and Fire_ conworld (since then,
I have started reading the first novel, but I am stuck with
that one), so I felt that I could not do it justice as well
as some others who had read Martin's novels could.

> Okrand refused to do anything - anything - on Atlantean because
> "no one is interested in it", making me and handful of people
> "no body" in Okrand's checking book.  But this, sigh, is the
> academic mentality, at least regarding anything with a popular
> appeal.

I don't know how tight the deadline and other constraints were
which Okrand had to cope with.  I also don't know when and to
whom he said that "no one is interested in it".  I would not
expect him to say that to *anybody*.  He must have seen how
much following his Klingon language has garnered.  Of course,
he may have been pessimistic about the box office performance
of the Atlantis movie.

> Frommer has a blog and keeps in contact with his dicipherers,
> but he still forces them to dicipher his rediculously amateur
> and over-complicated conlangs - I did nothing on Avatar, but
> saw its dicipherment and was appalled - did he know anything
> about conlanging before he made Na'vi ?

What is wrong with Frommer's Na'vi language?  OK, it is no
Sindarin, and I consider the transcription he chose for the
ejectives ugly, but I have seen worse conlangs.  The Na'vi
language shows pretty decent treatment of some matters.

> Both of them made up horrible orthographies : px for [p']
> instead of pp, and Okrand's I and G and whatever - capital
> letters.

I agree with you that Okrand's transcription of Klingon is
ugly.  (I am also of the opinion that his phonology is neither
plausible nor interesting - it is essentially a selection of
odd phonemes that looks like the result of firing a shotgun at
an IPA chart, and those phonemes are then used to form CVC
syllables without anything of interest going on.  Saying that
the language was "not human" is a poor excuse in my eyes.)

> Atlantean fixed all of Klingon's problems, but very few people
> seem to have seem my work.

I haven't seen your work either.  Obviously, I am not one of
the "very few people" who have seen it ;)

> And my specialty is writing systems - and Klingon alphabet
> and Martian alphabet are terrible - they aren't even a priori,
> Klingon is based on Phoenician and Martian was based on
> Atlantean and upper-case Roman.

Pardon?  I frankly don't get what you are talking about.

Some hints: First, don't confuse languages and writing systems.
Second, don't confuse orthographies (writing systems used by
the speakers of the relevant languages) and transcriptions
(writing systems used by scholars discussing the languages).

Klingon is, by the way, *not* based on Phoenician.  It *is*
an a priori language, with some features inspired by some
natlangs, mostly Native American ones.  Nor do I see why
Frommer's Martian should be "based on [Okrand's] Atlantean
and upper-case Roman"; it is based on some linguistic notes
and name material found in E. R. Burroughs's novels.

> These guys in Hollywood are goons.  I don't think their
> movies are good enough to have conlangs, but even then
> they could get guys who care and aren't just in it for
> the money.

Guard your tongue, Glóin's son.  Sure, Hollywood is mostly
about making money, and much of what they do is crap.  But
I don't think your treatment of Okrand and Frommer is fair.

> So I'm sending a message by translating all of John
> Carter into Martian.  For free.  How's that for a
> standard ?

Do so if you feel like that.  But don't complain if people
ask you what was the intended point of that exercise.

--
... brought to you by the Weeping Elf
http://www.joerg-rhiemeier.de/Conlang/index.html
"Bêsel asa Éam, a Éam atha cvanthal a cvanth atha Éamal." - SiM 1:1

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