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CONLANG  May 2012, Week 1

CONLANG May 2012, Week 1

Subject:

Re: Ot: Re: OT: Latin translation

From:

Daniel Prohaska <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 6 May 2012 15:38:36 +0200

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (65 lines)

I can imagine the ablative CASA (with a long final a) could possibly have taken on the meaning "at (someone's) place".
Dan

On May 5, 2012, at 11:09 AM, R A Brown wrote:

> On 04/05/2012 21:32, Peter Cyrus wrote:
>> French "chez" and Catalan "ca" both come from "casa", (at
>> the) house (of).
> 
> I have not the slightest doubt the BPJ knows that French
> _chez_ and Catalan _ca_ are derived from Latin _casa_. But
> _casa_ simply means "(simple) house, cottage, hut, cabin,
> shed."  It does *not* mean "at the house of" - that meaning
> is expressed in Latin by 'apud.'
> 
> The derived meanings of the French and Catalan words do not
> even go back to Vulgar Latin, they are later, though
> obviously related, developments.
> 
>> On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 5:15 PM, BPJ<[log in to unmask]>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> On 2012-05-04 07:45, Peter Cyrus wrote:
>>> 
>>>> How about "casative"?
>>>> 
>>> There was no CASARE -- not even in Vulgar Latin if
>>> Meyer-Lbke is to be trusted --, and *if* it had
>>> existed I'm sure it would have meant 'set up house,
>>> start a family'.
> 
> Possibly - but it would almost certainly not mean "to be at
> someone's house/cottage/hut etc."  Though in fact a verb
> _casare_ is found in early Latin as a variant of _cassare_ -
> both, it seems, being early variants of _quaesare_ "to shake."
> 
> So, like _chezative_, maybe _casative_ is a mood rather than
> a case - the former being when one has the shits and the
> latter when one has the shakes.   ;)
> 
>>> Even though the meaning of the case called
>>> "apudessive" in NE Caucasian languages isn't quite what
>>> we're after here I never heard that cases in different
>>> languages which are given the same label by linguists
>>> always have the same meaning or function.  A good
>>> grammar is required to describe the function of any
>>> case, however labelled, in the language under
>>> description.
> 
> Amen.
> 
> I can't help thinking that when it comes to naming cases in
> grammar, Occam razor should be applied, i.e. it's
> pointless inventing case names if existing ones do the job
> already.
> 
> -- 
> Ray
> ==================================
> http://www.carolandray.plus.com
> ==================================
> Frustra fit per plura quod potest
> fieri per pauciora.
> [William of Ockham]

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