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CONLANG  May 2012, Week 1

CONLANG May 2012, Week 1

Subject:

Re: Gender in First Person Singular

From:

Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 4 May 2012 19:48:34 +0200

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (98 lines)

On 4 May 2012 18:00, Logan Kearsley <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

>
> That's not the same thing. The choice of "il" vs. "elle" in French is
> determined by *grammatical* gender, a property of lexical items, and
> thus getting it wrong is a *grammatical* error. But the choice of "he"
> vs. "she" in English is determined solely by actual semantic gender, a
> property of referents, not lexical items, and thus is a semantic
> error, not necessarily a grammatical one (though it *could* be a
> grammatical error, if the reason for it is that the person speaking
> didn't actually know the distinction between "he" and "she"). No
> amount of grammatical or lexical knowledge is going to save you if you
> happen to be mistaken about the actual gender classification of the
> person you're referring to!
>
>
Actually, I've thought about it while driving back home, and I believe even
in French this question is more complicated than it seems.

First, there is the question of "what is grammar?". I adhere to a very
strict definition of grammar as "morphology+syntax". This usage is not mine
alone. You can find it for instance on Wikipedia, where the pages
"<Language> grammar" contain only descriptions of morphology and syntax.
Discussions of phonology and word meanings, for instance, go to different
pages (or to a single "<Language>  language" page). That said, YMMV.

Second, there is the question of whether the choice of a particular pronoun
is determined solely by grammatical gender in the languages that have it.
I'm tempted to say: "it depends". I'm pretty sure it's not true in French
for instance, and I am going to prove it.
There are two phenomena at hand here: grammatical gender agreement, and
choice of pronoun. Clearly French has grammatical gender agreement: saying
*"le table" is grammatically incorrect, as "table" is grammatically
feminine. You have to say "la table". However, is using the phrase "la
table" in one sentence, and referring to it in a following sentence as "il"
also a mistake in grammatical gender agreement? Saying "yes" would be
basically like saying that gender agreement can happen across sentences,
and I'm not sure that's a valid way to describe things. The problem is that
I've always understood sentences to be "grammatically complete and
independent units". If the choice of pronoun "il" or "elle" depends on the
grammatical gender of the noun used in a former sentence to represent the
referent, then the sentence where the pronoun appears is *not*
grammatically independent. It depends on a previous sentence for the
correct choice of pronoun. To me, that makes little sense.
Moreover, I know many examples where the correct pronoun usage is actually
in grammatical *disagreement* with the noun used. For instance, in French
many animals have names that are single-gendered. For instance,  "girafe"
is feminine, and there is no masculine equivalent. Yet a zoo caretaker (who
normally knows the sex of the animals under their care) will normally
always refer to a male girafe as "il", even if they mentioned that same
giraffe as "cette girafe" (with feminine agreement) in a previous sentence
(although saying "elle" would likely be acceptable as well, if frowned
upon).
Here's an even stricter example, where the *only* right way is to use the
pronoun that *disagrees* with the noun in grammatical gender. Take a
journalist writing about "le ministre américain des affaires étrangères",
i.e. "the American foreign affairs secretary". The head noun is masculine,
with masculine agreement on the article and the adjective. Yet if the
journalist in a following sentence refers to that same person with a
pronoun only, they will only ever use "elle", as they know that the person
in question is Hillary Clinton, who is definitely not an "il"! The only
right way to refer to the person who was first referred to with a masculine
phrase is with a feminine pronoun (note that in this case, some people have
adopted the feminine "la ministre", but many others still use the word
"ministre" only in the masculine gender, even when the referent is female).
Because of those examples (and I can think of many others, French
profession names are often single-gendered), I can't agree that pronoun
choice in French is solely a matter of grammatical gender. There's
definitely a semantic component that is more important in many cases. In
cases of inanimate objects and concepts, the semantic component is
irrelevant, and the pronoun choice defaults to the grammatical gender of
the noun used for the referent (although things can become more complicated
for things that can be referred to by nouns of different genders), but I'm
wary to call that a phenomenon of grammatical agreement. In any case, when
there is a semantic component, it takes priority over the grammatical
gender.

So, as my French examples show, even in a language that has grammatical
gender and agreement, pronoun choice needn't be done only on that basis.
There may be languages that do so (my Maggel is one of them :P ), but
French at least is a counter-example.


> Now, none of that resolves the question of whether or not it's a
> grammatical issue in Japanese. But that's kinda my point; how things
> work in French or in English is not evidence for how things work in
> Japanese. It requires someone knowledgeable specifically in how
> Japanese works to determine how much gender is a grammatical and how
> much a semantic category in this case.
>
>
Completely agreed.
-- 
Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets.

http://christophoronomicon.blogspot.com/
http://www.christophoronomicon.nl/

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