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CONLANG Home

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CONLANG  May 2012, Week 2

CONLANG May 2012, Week 2

Subject:

Re: A Brief Random Thought on Verbs

From:

Patrick Dunn <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 10 May 2012 23:09:56 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (135 lines)

Idioms aren't broader meaning of words? What are they then?

Since you can use this verb to describe location of a large collection of
items, from pencils to penicillin, I don't think I'd call it an idiom.

On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 11:07 PM, MorphemeAddict <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> This use of "geben" ('to give') is an idiom. It does not indicate a broader
> meaning of the word.
>
> stevo
>
> On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 11:38 PM, Casey Borders <[log in to unmask]
> >wrote:
>
> > German uses a much broader meaning of the verb to give. For example if
> you
> > wanted to know if there were a cinema nearby you would say:
> >
> > Gibt es ein Kino in der Nähe?
> > Gives it a cinema in the nearby?
> >
> > Casey Borders
> > On May 10, 2012 8:03 PM, "Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets" <
> > [log in to unmask]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > On 10 May 2012 23:08, Gary Shannon <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > How have you mapped the semantic space in your conlangs? Are your
> maps
> > > > systematic, or did they just happen?
> > > > --gary
> > > >
> > >
> > > This is something I'm paying a *lot* of attention to for Moten, which
> is
> > > why vocabulary building is so slow. As for how it happens, it's a
> > > combination of conscious design and random chance :) .
> > >
> > > For instance, to take your "give" example, in Moten there are two
> verbs:
> > > _ja|zi|n_ and _joplej_. They both mean about the same thing: depending
> on
> > > which arguments they have, they can mean "give", "take", "get",
> > "receive",
> > > "put", "bring", etc. Basically, they have a general meaning of
> > "transfer".
> > > Both have exactly the same meaning, with only a single difference:
> > > _ja|zi|n_ implies the transfer happens towards the speaker (i.e. from
> > > listener to speaker or from third-party to listener or speaker), or in
> a
> > > way that benefits the speaker, while _joplej_ implies a transfer away
> > from
> > > the speaker (from the speaker to the listener or a third-party, or from
> > the
> > > listener to a third-party), or in a way that is detrimental, or at
> least
> > > neutral, to the speaker.
> > >
> > > Another example is the verb _istu|l_, which means "to call, to summon",
> > but
> > > can also mean "to bring along". The verb _jeksaj_ means primarily "to
> > > touch", but it can also be used to mean "to hit, to run into, to meet
> by
> > > chance". The verb _jo|zemej_ combines "to eat" and "to drink" (Moten
> > > doesn't make the distinction between those two). The verb _izgeboj_
> means
> > > "to work on sthg", but also "to tire from sthg" or "to suffer from
> sthg".
> > > Those last two meanings are also among the meanings of the verb
> > _igmadevi_,
> > > but that one means primarily "to get sick because of sthg, to wear off
> > from
> > > sthg" or even "to kill oneself with sthg".
> > >
> > > And then there are verbs that are similar to English ones in terms of
> > > semantics, but swap the place of the arguments, like _iteo|l_: "to
> > please,
> > > to be liked by", _jelojmaj_: "to be thought of by", or _jelojmastu|l_:
> > "to
> > > be remembered by" (yeah, it's a compound of _jelojmaj_ and _istu|l_).
> > >
> > > And I can also mention the weird case of "to know", which doesn't have
> > any
> > > true equivalent in Moten. In Moten, the act of "knowing" something or
> > > someone is usually indicated by putting the manner by which one came to
> > > know in the perfect aspect. So if you know something because you
> studied
> > > it, you use the perfect of the verb _ivajagi_: "to study, to learn". If
> > you
> > > know a place because you've been there, you use the perfect of the verb
> > > _izunlaj_: "to be located". If you know someone because you happened to
> > > meet them once, you can use the perfect of _jeksaj_ mentioned above.
> > There
> > > *are* two verbs whose meanings come close to "to know", but they are
> very
> > > restricted in their semantics. Those verbs are _|li|n_: "to be aware
> of"
> > or
> > > "to know by instinct" and _jolnesi_: "to be an expert in, to know by
> > > heart".
> > >
> > > Something similar happens with "to meet". The verb _jeksaj_ is
> restricted
> > > to indicate chance encounters. For planned meetings, one uses instead
> the
> > > verb _ipe|laj_: "to see, to look at".
> > >
> > > As you can see, Moten does quite interesting things with the semantic
> > > space, some somewhat similar to what happens in English, some quite
> wild.
> > > Some verbs have a wide semantic domain and cover various verbs in
> > English,
> > > while others only cover a fraction of the semantic space covered by a
> > > corresponding English verb. And yet, it all feels very natural to me.
> > > --
> > > Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets.
> > >
> > > http://christophoronomicon.blogspot.com/
> > > http://www.christophoronomicon.nl/
> > >
> >
>



--
Second Person, a chapbook of poetry by Patrick Dunn, is now available for
order from Finishing Line
Press<http://www.finishinglinepress.com/NewReleasesandForthcomingTitles.htm>
and
Amazon<http://www.amazon.com/Second-Person-Patrick-Dunn/dp/1599249065/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1324342341&sr=8-2>.

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