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CONLANG  May 2012, Week 4

CONLANG May 2012, Week 4

Subject:

Re: Dothraki Throne & 13th Warrior Scene

From:

Patrick Dunn <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 28 May 2012 14:05:14 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (80 lines)

On Mon, May 28, 2012 at 1:55 PM, J. M. DeSantis <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> <http://www.game-flush.com>
>
> On 5/28/2012 1:55 PM, Patrick Dunn wrote:
>
>> On Mon, May 28, 2012 at 12:41 PM, J. M. DeSantis<[log in to unmask]>
>>  wrote:
>>
>>  On 5/28/2012 1:14 PM, George Corley wrote:
>>>
>>>  One note:  I have no problem with Daenaerys inserting an English word
>>>> into
>>>> Dothraki.  It is clear both from George RR Martin's writing and from the
>>>> style of the TV series that the part of the Common Tongue of Westeros is
>>>> being played by English, and no one really cares if it is just magical
>>>> fantasy English or some foreign language being translated for us.
>>>>  Besides,
>>>> the audience has to be aware that the word is being borrowed, which
>>>> would
>>>> be difficult to convey with some constructed Westerosi word.
>>>>
>>>>  To be sure, Mr. Corley. And honestly, I don't take issue with it at
>>>> all.
>>>>
>>> It's not a criticism at all; it's just something I'm always conscious of.
>>> It's merely one of those instances where I think a fine line is being
>>> walked, but one which we are all willing to accept (and rightfully so). I
>>> suppose this consciousness of such situations stems from a certain scene
>>> in
>>> the film the "13th Warrior" which I just cannot seem to get past (and
>>> which, likely, I will write about to the group at a later date--sorry, I
>>> just wanted to give a quick response).
>>>
>>>
>>>  Is it the scene where they're all speaking Old Norse and he starts to
>> understand it bit by bit?  I really quite like that scene, aside from any
>> quality or lack of quality in the Old Norse, which I can't comment on.
>>
> Well, it appears I'll have to address it now (that "13th Warrior" scene).
>
> Actually, no, it's not the scene you're referring to. I know some people
> who have a problem with that scene, but I rather like it too and think it
> within the realm of possibility.
>
> Rather, the scene I'm referring to is when Herger (Joyous) is asking
> Ahmed's name. Ahmed responds: "Ahmed ibn Fadlan ibn al-Abbas ibn Rashid..."
> To which Herger responds "Ibn!" (obviously latching on to the one recurring
> word in the complicated bloodline Ahmed lays out). But then, (and this is
> where I have a problem), Ahmed response "No, listen. My name is Ahmed ibn
> Fadlan. Ibn *means 'son of'*." This sort of creates a linguist conundrum.
> At this point, Ahmed does not know a single word of Old Norse. So, even
> though this creates a great joke for the audience (Ahmed being called "son"
> or "son of" because his name is too complicated to Herger), how exactly
> does Ahmed explain the meaning of "ibn" in those terms? It would work if he
> was saying "means son of" in Old Norse, but he's only speaking Arabic at
> that point in the film. Thus, really, all Ahmed is actually saying is "Ibn
> means ibn" or "Son of means son of," which is complete gibberish, both in
> his own tongue and the Northmen's.
>
> It's nitpicky, I know, but that scene really bothers me because,
> considering from a linguistic standpoint, it makes absolutely no sense.
>
>
Ahh, see, I assumed we were facing a translation convention there, where
his speech was being translated into idiomatic English so what he said
might have been more like:

"ibn Fadlan means that my father is Fadlan."  Which would be rendered more
succinctly in English as "ibn means 'son of.'"  But I see your objection if
you're expecting the translation convention to be more literal.


-- 
Second Person, a chapbook of poetry by Patrick Dunn, is now available for
order from Finishing Line
Press<http://www.finishinglinepress.com/NewReleasesandForthcomingTitles.htm>
and
Amazon<http://www.amazon.com/Second-Person-Patrick-Dunn/dp/1599249065/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1324342341&sr=8-2>.

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