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CONLANG  May 2012, Week 4

CONLANG May 2012, Week 4

Subject:

Re: THEORY: Cases in Conlanging

From:

Jörg Rhiemeier <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 26 May 2012 22:16:32 +0200

Content-Type:

Text/Plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

Text/Plain (104 lines)

Hallo conlangers!

On Sat, 26 May 2012 20:52:47 +0100 R A Brown wrote:

> On 26/05/2012 16:12, Dustfinger Batailleur wrote:
> > Essentially, my questions are as follows: Is case a good
> >  idea for a conlang, and why (advantages/disadvantages)?
> 
> If one was talking about auxlangs, then advantages &
> disadvantages would have some meaning.  But let's leave that
> to Auxlang (far too flammable for here IME).

Yup!  Most auxlangers seem to opine against case, but as you
said, this can is best left unopened here.

> But for artlangs, it clearly depends what sort of language
> you want to create.  If you want something with a vaguely
> 'old Eurpoeanish' feel, then clearly cases are needed.  if
> you are trying to create a convincing language with an
> isolating grammar, clearly case are out.  It simply depends
> on the sort of language you want to create.

Right. As for my own conlangs, I chose to make Old Albic with
a rich case system because I wanted some "old Europeanish feel"
as you call it, like Ancient Greek or Latin, and I happen to
like case paradigms.  But in my second major conlang, Roman
Germanech, I have done away with the cases of Latin, because a
western Romance language should have done so, I think.

> If you are creating an engelang, then the objectives you
> have set for engineering your language will dictate whether
> you are using anything analogous to 'case' or not.
> 
> There is IMO no correct answer to "Is case a good idea for a
> conlang?"  For some it will be essential, for some they must
> not exist, for many it will be the whim of the creator.

100% agreed.

> Cases can make for more concise expressions without a lot of
> prepositions or poztpositions hanging around. But they are
> not to everyone's taste. It really depends on you.

Just that.

> > What are some major conlangs with/without case?
> 
> Tolkien's Quenya has nine cases (or possibly ten); Sindarin,
> on the other hand, AFAIK has none.

Correct.

> John Quijada's  Ithkuil has 81 cases, and its descendent
> Ilaksh has a total of 96 cases!

As usual, it cannot get enough ;)
 
> Brithenig nouns have no cases, but pronouns have separate
> subject & object forms.

Just like most other Romance languages.

> > How much is too much/too little? Please discuss.
> 
> As we say in English "how long is a piece of string?"
> 
> Obviously if you're having cases, one is too little! but
> language have existed with just two, e.g. Old French and Old
> ProvenÁal; probably some two case languages are being spoken
> at this very moment.

Sure they are: Romanian is an example.

> As for too many?  It depends what effect you are after.  if
> you want to mimic say a Finno-Ugric language you would
> probably have at least a dozen and anything up about 30.

Some Northeast Caucasian languages are said to have 40 cases
or more!  However, these languages are actually quite economical
in matters of case: they have what could be called "case
construction kits".  There is a set of suffixes with meanings
such as 'at', 'in', 'on', 'near' etc., and a second set of
suffixes with meanings such as 'at', 'to', 'from'.  These are
combined to form cases meaning things like 'out of' or 'towards'.
I am planning to implement such a system in a daughter language
of Old Albic.

> It really depends on what you are trying to do

Yep.

> > (Also, I'm new to this listserv, so if I deviate from the
> > common customs, please don't hesitate to set me on the
> > correct path)
> 
> Welcome - and I detect no deviation from common customs   :)

Nor do I.  Welcome to CONLANG, Dustfinger!

--
... brought to you by the Weeping Elf
http://www.joerg-rhiemeier.de/Conlang/index.html
"BÍsel asa …am, a …am atha cvanthal a cvanth atha …amal." - SiM 1:1

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