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CONLANG  June 2012, Week 3

CONLANG June 2012, Week 3

Subject:

Re: SFF Art and Racial Bias (were: Re: [CONLANG] Importance of good worldbuilding (was: What in the world is in the World?))

From:

Padraic Brown <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 15 Jun 2012 18:04:42 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (140 lines)

--- On Wed, 6/13/12, Allison Swenson <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Interesting you should bring up
> Discworld; I just finished reading Jingo
> which does imply that Ankh-Morporkians are lighter than
> Klatchians (and
> then there's Nobby, who doesn't really have a single
> consistent color),

Well, Nobby seems to be a cladistic niche all his own...

> although it's never said exactly how light "lighter" is and
> how dark "darker" is. 

Indeed. I think we just imagine Morporkians as white Europeans and 
Klatchians as slightly darker Levantines simply based on the descriptions
of A-M as a Londonesque city, and of course the way he makes names sound
like names from a particular geographical locale. I mean "Vimes" and
"de Nobbes" sound good and European; "Al Khali" and "Gebra" are clearly 
Arabic names. He's either playing on or has fallen for the assumption that
"Sam Vimes" must be an Anglo guy and "Achmed the I Just Get These 
Headaches" must be an Arab guy.

> Carrot has red hair and Angua's a blond, so if Discworld
> appearances are like Roundworld ones, they're probably
> fairly pale... 

True. And it is entirely possible that Himself never even thought about it
much.

> but I don't think it's ever mentioned how light or dark dwarves or
> those from
> other places are, and trolls and whatnot are all sorts of
> colors.
> 
> Discworld speculation aside, it is an interesting phenomenon
> (even if it is
> rather sad) that so many covers show distinctly Western
> European
> characters, even if the book never specifies... or worse
> yet, even if the book directly contradicts it!

Indeed. This is the worse sin. I can accept a cultural expectation that
a Conan-esque character will be a strapping big white lad, even if the
author never says. But if the main character is blue-black, then by golly, 
the picture on the front cover should reflect that!

> Comic books, which often fall into the same science
> fiction/fantasy line,
> are much the same, I must admit. Even characters who are
> supposed to be
> non-white end up looking very, very white at times--Ra's al
> Ghul usually
> looks like he's from the British Isles, not the Arabian
> Peninsula, Wonder
> Woman rarely if ever looks Greek, and so on.

Well, I know one Greek girl, and WW kind of looks like her, so...

Padraic

> 
> --Allison
> 
> On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 10:08 PM, Padraic Brown <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
> 
> > --- On Wed, 6/13/12, Adam Walker <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
> >
> > > For the most part, people on SFF covers are white
> even if the characters
> > > in the book are not.  We managed to come up
> with a bare handful of covers
> > > featuring non-white human faces, despite the fact
> that faces are on a
> > > very significant portion of SFF covers.  I
> managed to come up with one
> > > cover featuring a Chinese face and two that
> feature American Indian
> > > faces (one of which is sequal to the other) and I
> just thought of one
> > > more with an African-American face, but as poorly
> as non-whites are
> > > represented in SFF stories, they are even more
> poorly represented on
> > > covers.  It seems there maybe an industry
> opinion that books with
> > > non-white faces on the cover won't sell.
> >
> > Interesting! Next time I'm in the Shop, I'll make an
> informal survey. One
> > thing I wonder at is the assumption that non-whites are
> poorly represented
> > in SFF stories. I can't actually recall the skin tone
> of the vast majority
> > of SFF characters actually being addressed. Some are,
> to be sure, but
> > could it not be said equally true that it's simply our
> own biases (as
> > readers) that the stories all involve white people and
> not some other
> > colour? I also freely admit that I could simply be not
> remembering key
> > descriptions that are in fact regularly made in such
> stories!
> >
> > I don't recall JRRT specifying the skin colour of
> Hobbits or Men or Elves
> > (I know he mentions "Black Numenoreans" in a couple
> places, but I'm not at
> > all sure this refers to skin colour; he also mentions
> "Swertings", who are
> > apparently actual black coloured Men.) Nor do I think
> Pterry specifies the
> > skin colours of Discworld peoples or the main
> characters (we just assume
> > from the cover art and his own English heritage that
> Ankh-Morporkians
> > must be white Englishmen!; nor many other similar
> stories I've read.
> > Though I do have to say that the cover art might lead
> one to think that
> > all these characters are white skinned Europoids! For
> that matter, I don't
> > think I've ever discussed the various skin colours of
> people in the World.
> > Would it surprise you to know the Auntimoanians are
> largely blaomein?
> > Blancmein you get mostly in the western grafdoms; and
> you get some
> > suuartmein as well, but they come from over the ocean.
> >
> > Padraic
> >
> > > Adam
> >
> >
> 

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