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CONLANG  July 2012, Week 1

CONLANG July 2012, Week 1

Subject:

Re: Generic Dictionary Software

From:

George Corley <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 1 Jul 2012 04:19:24 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (84 lines)

What you have listed there is probably mandatory for most languages.  I
would add word class (/ part of speech) -- which needs user-defined values,
and possibly an optional etymology variable.  In addition, I think it is
absolutely essential to have, in addition to these stock variables, the
option to create user-defined variables.  One of the biggest problems with
any standardized dictionary format is that different languages have
different needs.  In one language, you may have a number of irregular forms
that you'll need to turn on for certain words -- and said irregular forms
need to be labelled appropriately -- but the software can't possibly list
all the linguistic terminology it would need for that in a way that would
in any way be easy to use.

On Sun, Jul 1, 2012 at 4:08 AM, Logan Kearsley <[log in to unmask]>wrote:

> I finally got around to finishing up last Monday's really long episode
> of Conlangery, and got all excited about the talk of dictionaries.
>
> A bunch of people I work with recently attended the CALICO conference
> (https://calico.org/) on using technology in language instruction, and
> apparently one of the results of discussions there is that a bunch of
> NLP researchers want to put together a common API for NLP tools and
> resources, and one important type of resource is dictionaries. This of
> course means having a standard format for representing dictionary
> information. I immediately thought, "dang, conlangers have put a lot
> of work into trying to come up with good dictionary formats, I wonder
> how a bunch of NLP researchers are going to do," and then had a
> heckuva time trying to coherently explain what the difficulty of
> reusing dictionary formats between wildly different languages.
> features of dictionaries.
>
> Given my current educational & employment situation, there's a good
> chance that I may end up doing research on parts of this imagined API
> in the fall, for which I could get money and/or academic credit. And
> if I don't end up researching dictionary formats, *somebody* will
> eventually, and if they do a good job then whatever standard is
> defined for that ought to make a great basis for a storage format for
> some conlanging dictionary tools. Of course, there's still
> output/display formatting to worry about, but I find that once you've
> got an appropriate data structure, figuring out how to layout and
> style the data for human consumption is comparatively trivial.
> (If I *don't* end up on that sort of project, and nobody else gets
> around to it fast enough, I may be sufficiently interested to go the
> Kickstarter route on this.)
>
> So, I've now got both conlanging and serious academic interest in
> trying to solve this dictionary problem, and the programming skills to
> back it up. There's no need to try tricking linguists into thinking
> it's for them to drum up support, because it really genuinely is for
> them, but for conlangers, too.
>
> I took down notes of what sorts of things were requested from the
> participants in Conlangery, and got this basic list of features that
> relate to actual stored data:
>
> A lexical entry system that has fields for
> 1) multiple definitions
> 2) usage examples
> 3) references to translations / texts that use the word
> 4) tags
>
> Definitions for tags with information like "this is a guiding
> metaphor, things that work within this metaphor have this tag"
> Question- what all should be included in the description of a lexical
> item? This is the biggest point of difference between languages, I
> think.
>
> And then these features for a program:
> A lexical entry editing system that's configurable for different
> languages (configurable how exactly?)
> Automatic searching for references & adding them to lexical entries.
> Generating English-Lang, Lang-English formatted output. (only works if
> entries contain sufficient data to match definitions in one language
> to entries in another language)
>
> SIL Shoebox has also been mentioned as "terrible"; for people who have
> actually used it, what exactly is wrong with it?
>
> Any ideas for other things that ought to be included, both in terms of
> data that ought to be storeable and features that a program should
> have for manipulating it?
>
> -l.
>

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