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CONLANG  July 2012, Week 3

CONLANG July 2012, Week 3

Subject:

Re: Speedtalks and briefscripts (was: Hemingway story

From:

Sam Stutter <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 00:40:00 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (97 lines)

Seems to me that there are 2 questions here:

1) Is calligraphy popular? Answer: yes (in the UK, at least - our pokey little bookshop must sell at least one calligraphy book a week. And the US, apparently. And, presumably, in other Latin-alphabet using languages)

2) Are some alphabets inherently better for calligraphy? I don't think so. I can imagine Hebrew and Bengali calligraphy. Latin calligraphy, especially when in conjunction with illuminated lettering, is a wonder to behold. I find it difficult to imagine Greek or Cyrillic calligraphy, but then again I've never seen it handwritten, only ever typeset.

I might posit that particular *languages* are more suitable. I don't buy the idea that calligraphy is less common in France due to a cultural difference. I can't really see what culture unites Britain, America and other "calligraphy-countries" and yet does not include the Netherlands.

I'm at a loss to explain quite *why* English (and possibly German) are better suited - perhaps they have a history of calligraphy which other languages don't. I notice the first English bible was created 170 years before the French. I don't think the last 200 years have a big enough influence, especially since it saw mass literacy, the ball-point pen, unprecedented international trade and travel and the era of disposable literature.

Sam Stutter
[log in to unmask]
"No e na'l cu barri"

On 19 Jul 2012, at 00:05, Padraic Brown <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> --- On Wed, 7/18/12, Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> 
>> I don't believe there's a handwritten Dutch one. The lastest
>> French one
>> could be handwritten, but nobody could care less. All the
>> French and Dutch
>> constitutions I've seen were printed.
>> 
>> 
>>> works of decorative art. All bits of calligraphy.
>>> 
>>> 
>> Which are all pretty much unknown to the large public. Many
>> don't even know
>> what the word "calligraphy" means! (I've probably had to
>> explain that word
>> about as often as I've had to explain what conlanging is!)
> 
> Tsk! You're just Mr Negativity this evening! I guess this is score one
> for the usually culturally benighted Americans, as most Americans know
> what calligraphy is and can point out examples of it and have some idea
> how it's done and, obviously, appreciate its beauty enough to keep hosts
> of calligraphers busy writing out all those things that you've never
> heard of in France or the Netherlands! ;)))))
> 
> For example, we *do* have a Constitution, and it's hand written, and, at
> least in my opinion, it's very beautifully hand written. And most Americans
> can recognise it when they see it, and more than a million people annually
> file past the original in DC just to look at it. You get more yearly visits
> at the Louvre, but considering that the Archives only has a small handful
> of exhibits (and almost all of them are *calligraphic*!) I'd say a million
> a year is pretty good for such a "dead" art.
> 
>>> I would agree that calligraphy in the west is not as
>> prominent an art as
>>> music or literature -- but I concur that the dismissive
>> attitude is a bit
>>> undeserved.
>>> 
>>> 
>> Maybe, but that *is* how the Western world sees it. Your
>> knowledge of
>> calligraphy makes you more aware of it than most people. 
> 
> I'm afraid my knowledge of it puts me somewhere in the 90%+ of Americans
> that have heard of it and the probably 60%+ that have tried it at some
> time in their lives! It's popular enough that several art supply 
> companies, including the giant Crayola, offer various calligraphy markers,
> pens, inks, instruction books, style sheets, pen sets, inks, specialty
> papers and the like.
> 
>> But most Western
>> people nowadays don't even know that there such a thing as
>> calligraphy!
> 
> As Ray says, if by "western" you mean only France and Holland!
> 
>> That's quite different from the attitude in the Arabic and
>> Asian cultures,
>> where calligraphy has a much more prominent position!
>> 
>> Yes, the Western calligraphic tradition is rich. But it's
>> mostly forgotten.
>> I will repeat myself to make it clear: most Westerners are
>> just *not* aware
>> of its existence. Not at all. That's not being dismissive,
>> and it's true
>> that it's undeserved, but it's just a fact.
> 
> Well, I'm afraid it is. Ray has described how well known calligraphy is
> in the UK. I know and have described how well known it is in the US. 
> Calligraphy is also apparently well known in Australia, where there is a
> Society and a number of active calligraphers. It's  certainly not
> unknown in the Philippines or Canada. There's also a Society there. That's 
> a pretty good chunk of the English speaking western world where you seem 
> to think nobody at all has even heard of it!
> 
> Padraic
> 
>> Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets.

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