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CONLANG  July 2012, Week 3

CONLANG July 2012, Week 3

Subject:

Re: How many overloaded words?

From:

Logan Kearsley <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 16 Jul 2012 12:43:02 -0600

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (106 lines)

On 14 July 2012 20:27, Alex Fink <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> On Sat, 14 Jul 2012 18:41:31 -0600, Logan Kearsley <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>>On 27 June 2012 13:25, Alex Fink <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>> (b) is full mostly of unuseful meanings
>>
>>To solve point (b), Mev
>>Pailom has multiple different derivation classes, each of which has a
>>completely independent paradigm, with potentially completely size and
>>shape. Root concepts are assigned to derivation classes based on which
>>sets of derived meanings are most likely to be actually useful. So,
>>several small paradigms that capture just the useful elements rather
>>than one big all-encompassing paradigm with a lot of useless slots.
>
> Ooh.  Can you tell us the paradigms?  (Using hypothetical roots if you otherwise fear giving too much away?)

Oh, I don't fear giving too much away. (Even if Mev Pailom is sort of
supposed to be a cryptolang, I expect that no one else will ever
actually learn it regardless of how much information about it is
available; if anyone cares about spying on my home life enough to go
to that much trouble, gosh, they're welcome to it, I guess.) I just
asked for somebody else's paradigms, after all, so it's only fair.

I do, however, fear giving away misinformation, as specific forms are
still very much in flux, and the number of paradigms and distribution
of slots between them could change significantly as the language
evolves. With that proviso, here's how things look right now (at
least, the last time I recorded and tried formalizing stuff):

1st Declension	ZN-C "meaning, signification" (possibly not the best
example of usefullness for this declension, but oh well)
The most generic declension.

Verb Forms:
AP/F "znec", to stand for something, intentionally (e.g., as a representative)
A/P "znaci", to give meaning to something
A/F "aznoce", to create a symbol for something
A/P/F "znacu", to give something a particular meaning
AP "znuci", to have meaning or purpose for oneself
P "aznca", to have meaning, to be significant
P/F "iznca", to mean something

Nominal Forms:
Abstract "znaic", meaningfullness
Agent "znacjr", cause of aboutness, bestower of significance
Patient "aznci", symbol or sign
Focus "zneces", meaning
Location "znacasa", a place for interpreting symbols (?)
Instrument "znaicom", the means by which meaning is implied (language, code)

2nd Declension	SM-DQ "flat, smooth"
Mostly for concepts that have inherent foci, typically adjectivy things.

Verb Forms:
AP "smidq", to be smooth on purpose (e.g., to shave)
P "asmadq", to be flat or smooth
A/P "smodqi", to make something smooth, flatten

Nominal Forms:
Focus "esmedq", smoothness, flatitude
Agent "smidqjr", smoother, flattener (human)
Patient "asmdqi", smooth or flat thing
Instrument "smedqaj", smoother, flattener (e.g., hammer)
Location "smedqasa", a place for smooth, flat things (perhaps
riverbed? not so useful for this particular root, but essential for
Class 2 roots that aren't as adjectivy, like "yerqasa", "place for
snuggling, couch")

3rd Declension	N-K, "make"
For things that are never voluntary.

Verb Forms:
A/F	"nek", to make another example of something
A/P/F "neku", to make something into something else
P/F "nkuj", to become something
P "anke", to be made, artificial

Nominal Forms:
Abstract "jenk", production, manufacturing
Agent "nekjr", maker
Patient "anki", a made or worked on thing
Focus "nkes", the result or intent of making, a state or product
Instrument "jenkim", tool
Location "nakese", a place for making things, factory, workshop, kitchen, etc.

>>There's some interesting thought to be given here to what exactly
>>constitutes "ambiguity". If we have one word that can be used in all
>>the senses here listed for "give", does that mean that word is
>>ambiguous, or just that it has a single well-defined but very large
>>meaning? If We have a word that means "something masculine related to
>>rings", is that ambiguous between “ring-wearing man,” “the man with
>>the ring,” “the ring with a man’s face on it,” etc., or is it really
>>just "something masculine related to rings", which requirement *all*
>>of those referents satisfy?
>
> There are tests to sort out _ambiguity_, the condition of there being two words with the same form, from _vagueness_, the condition of a word that just doesn't specify some detail.
>   http://books.google.com/books?id=canMZSZ32ZgC&lpg=PA167&ots=bLnHjilgcT&pg=PA167#v=onepage&q&f=false

Oh, cool. Thanks for that link.

> As you say, recast in this framework, Gary's "give" example is nearly certainly just vague (and let me add that it's not farfetched at all).  Your "ring" example is trickier, and it probably depends on how transparent the morphological network giving the expanded sense "something masculine related to rings" is.

To be fair, David Brumbley's example.

-l.

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