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CONLANG  July 2012, Week 3

CONLANG July 2012, Week 3

Subject:

Re: Speedtalks and briefscripts (was: Hemingway story

From:

Padraic Brown <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 18 Jul 2012 18:31:37 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (197 lines)

--- On Wed, 7/18/12, Sam Stutter <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Seems to me that there are 2 questions here:
> 
> 1) Is calligraphy popular? Answer: yes (in the UK, at least
> - our pokey little bookshop must sell at least one
> calligraphy book a week. And the US, apparently. And,
> presumably, in other Latin-alphabet using languages)
> 
> 2) Are some alphabets inherently better for calligraphy? I
> don't think so. I can imagine Hebrew and Bengali
> calligraphy. 

There is the "Handbook of Hebrew Calligraphy", so one can learn the
techniques! ;)

See http://www.enyakeshet.com/homeblessings.asp

> Latin calligraphy, especially when in
> conjunction with illuminated lettering, is a wonder to
> behold. I find it difficult to imagine Greek or Cyrillic
> calligraphy, but then again I've never seen it handwritten,
> only ever typeset.

Greek: http://www.flickr.com/photos/chekal/sets/72157623608023322/detail/

Cyrillic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vyaz_%28Cyrillic_calligraphy%29

Gothic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Wulfila_bibel.jpg

American: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:WHCalligraphyOffice.jpg
(yes, we do have a White House calligrapher!)

English: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bickham-letter.png

> I might posit that particular *languages* are more suitable.

How so? What difference does it really make whether the language is
English or Spanish or a conlang? Just curious as to your rationale!

> I don't buy the idea that calligraphy is less common in
> France due to a cultural difference. 

Apparently France is not that devoid of calligraphy either. FNAC has a
number of calligraphy oriented books (in French) for sale; there are books
about the history of calligraphy in France. 

> I can't really see what culture unites Britain, America and other
> "calligraphy-countries" and yet does not include the Netherlands.

Fish and chips. Either that or English Law. The Font of All Knowledge tells
us that English cuisine is strong on "simplicity of approach, honesty of 
flavour, and a reliance on the high quality of natural produce". Sounds a
lot like typical American cuisine (and I don't mean McDonalds). English
Law is still the basis for American common law (except in Louisiana).
 
> I'm at a loss to explain quite *why* English (and possibly
> German) are better suited - perhaps they have a history of
> calligraphy which other languages don't. I notice the first
> English bible was created 170 years before the French. I
> don't think the last 200 years have a big enough influence,
> especially since it saw mass literacy, the ball-point pen,
> unprecedented international trade and travel and the era of
> disposable literature.

Padraic

> Sam Stutter
> [log in to unmask]
> "No e na'l cu barri"
> 
> On 19 Jul 2012, at 00:05, Padraic Brown <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
> 
> > --- On Wed, 7/18/12, Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets
> <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
> > 
> >> I don't believe there's a handwritten Dutch one.
> The lastest
> >> French one
> >> could be handwritten, but nobody could care less.
> All the
> >> French and Dutch
> >> constitutions I've seen were printed.
> >> 
> >> 
> >>> works of decorative art. All bits of
> calligraphy.
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >> Which are all pretty much unknown to the large
> public. Many
> >> don't even know
> >> what the word "calligraphy" means! (I've probably
> had to
> >> explain that word
> >> about as often as I've had to explain what
> conlanging is!)
> > 
> > Tsk! You're just Mr Negativity this evening! I guess
> this is score one
> > for the usually culturally benighted Americans, as most
> Americans know
> > what calligraphy is and can point out examples of it
> and have some idea
> > how it's done and, obviously, appreciate its beauty
> enough to keep hosts
> > of calligraphers busy writing out all those things that
> you've never
> > heard of in France or the Netherlands! ;)))))
> > 
> > For example, we *do* have a Constitution, and it's hand
> written, and, at
> > least in my opinion, it's very beautifully hand
> written. And most Americans
> > can recognise it when they see it, and more than a
> million people annually
> > file past the original in DC just to look at it. You
> get more yearly visits
> > at the Louvre, but considering that the Archives only
> has a small handful
> > of exhibits (and almost all of them are
> *calligraphic*!) I'd say a million
> > a year is pretty good for such a "dead" art.
> > 
> >>> I would agree that calligraphy in the west is
> not as
> >> prominent an art as
> >>> music or literature -- but I concur that the
> dismissive
> >> attitude is a bit
> >>> undeserved.
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >> Maybe, but that *is* how the Western world sees it.
> Your
> >> knowledge of
> >> calligraphy makes you more aware of it than most
> people. 
> > 
> > I'm afraid my knowledge of it puts me somewhere in the
> 90%+ of Americans
> > that have heard of it and the probably 60%+ that have
> tried it at some
> > time in their lives! It's popular enough that several
> art supply 
> > companies, including the giant Crayola, offer various
> calligraphy markers,
> > pens, inks, instruction books, style sheets, pen sets,
> inks, specialty
> > papers and the like.
> > 
> >> But most Western
> >> people nowadays don't even know that there such a
> thing as
> >> calligraphy!
> > 
> > As Ray says, if by "western" you mean only France and
> Holland!
> > 
> >> That's quite different from the attitude in the
> Arabic and
> >> Asian cultures,
> >> where calligraphy has a much more prominent
> position!
> >> 
> >> Yes, the Western calligraphic tradition is rich.
> But it's
> >> mostly forgotten.
> >> I will repeat myself to make it clear: most
> Westerners are
> >> just *not* aware
> >> of its existence. Not at all. That's not being
> dismissive,
> >> and it's true
> >> that it's undeserved, but it's just a fact.
> > 
> > Well, I'm afraid it is. Ray has described how well
> known calligraphy is
> > in the UK. I know and have described how well known it
> is in the US. 
> > Calligraphy is also apparently well known in Australia,
> where there is a
> > Society and a number of active calligraphers.
> It's  certainly not
> > unknown in the Philippines or Canada. There's also a
> Society there. That's 
> > a pretty good chunk of the English speaking western
> world where you seem 
> > to think nobody at all has even heard of it!
> > 
> > Padraic
> > 
> >> Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets.
> 

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