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CONLANG  July 2012, Week 3

CONLANG July 2012, Week 3

Subject:

Re: Anthropomorphized Abstractions in Animacy-Sensitive Languages

From:

George Corley <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 19 Jul 2012 21:18:27 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (48 lines)

Makes me think what the translation would be for the Iron Islands saying
(from Game of Thrones / A Song of Ice and Fire): "What is dead can never
die, but rises harder and stronger!"

On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 3:38 PM, Anthony Miles <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> I erred - the actual line is "Goodness cannot die", so the awkward Siye
> translation would be:
> Nimu ilipuyamnu (with an animate noun) or
> Nimu elipuyamnu (with an inanimate noun).
> I have thought about it, however, and decided to use the idiom
> Nimu iwa like-me-pu ekimpukimu.
> Nimu-# iwa like-me-pu e-kim-pu-ki-me-u
> good-ABSOLUTIVE thing death-POSSESSIVE-EQUATIVE
> 3.INANIMATE-be/stand-SG-DIR (AT)-IMPERFECTIVE-NEGATIVE
> Goodness is not a thing of death.
> Death is not an inherent characteristic of goodness.
>
> So that's solved, but I had a different question for the List:
>
> The Siye core cases for A, S, and P are:
> NOM/ABS -#
> ERG -ya, -na
> ACC -a
>
> Simplifying somewhat, the ergative is used for a nominal agent of a
> transitive verb. The accusative is used for the pronominal patient of a
> transitive verb. So, those names and functions make sense. The problems
> come in in the nominative-absolutive, which I have been treating as two
> cases with identical marking. The nominative is used for the pronominal
> agent of a transitive verb and the pronominal subject of an intransitive
> verb. The absolutive is used for the nominal patient of a transitive verb
> and the nominal subject of an intransitive verb. In the current version of
> Siye, it is possible to have a zero-marked pronominal nominative agent and
> a zero-marked nominal absolutive patient in a transitive clause. So far,
> this has not been a problem in terms of composition or comprehension, since
> verbal A/P marking and constituent order are also used in Siye. HOWEVER,
> the term Nominative-Absolutive is long and unwieldy, and the native
> grammatical tradition would likely analyze the zero-marking as a single
> case with multiple uses. Would it be better to call the zero-marked case
> Nominative or Absolutive? I am leaning towards Nominative, since a
> Nominative case could cover both the pronominal A of a transitive clause
> and the S (pronominal and nominal) of an intransitive clause. I have not
> decided, however,  so I would like to know what others have done in similar
> situations where the names of the cases are insufficient and inaccurate.
>
>

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