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CONLANG  July 2012, Week 5

CONLANG July 2012, Week 5

Subject:

Re: Transcription system for Books

From:

"J. M. DeSantis" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 29 Jul 2012 16:35:53 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (120 lines)

Conlang List,

I'll try to add my (modestly informed) two cents on this topic. First, I 
agree with everything said below (Stevo's example of Tolkien's method 
and MorphemeAddict's declaration that "it's not often enough"), and 
perhaps, considering these statements, I can add some insight from my 
own experiences.

For one, yes, Tolkien's method was adequate for what he was attempting 
to create, but even so, despite all his best intentions of 
"regularising" a transcription system for Quenya and Sindarin, most 
people still mispronounced certain Elvish names incorrectly, without 
knowing the language better (specifically Celeborn for English speaking 
peoples). But, then again, most English speaking peoples, looking at the 
Irish female name Siobhan, would not know how to pronounce it without 
being introduced to the name and its spelling before trying to sound it 
out cold.

On the flip side, a few months ago I wrote to the list (in part) 
lamenting my difficulties with mimicking the transcription system for 
Malayalam (one of India's Dravidian languages) in one of my own conlangs 
(the partial results of which I may finally soon, in a limited form, be 
able to share with the list). In fact, Malayalam has 36 consonants and 
can essentially represent all of the complex sounds of the vast majority 
of the sounds found in both Sanskrit and all of India's many languages 
(Dravidian or not). This is especially a problem when Malayalam has 
occurrences of a double-consonant D sound (DD), a regular D (as in 
English), a hard TH (as in *thick*), a soft TH as in (*this*) and an 
aspirated D (DH--no English equivalent). Why is this a problem? Because 
in *most* transcription systems a soft TH (this) is either represented 
DH or DD, and Malayalam must also account for aspirated D (DH) and a 
double consonant D (DD). Thus, many transcription systems use 
diacritical marks even on the consonants in Malayalam. (This may be a 
language you'll want to give a look to, just to see all of the complex 
ways of representing its sounds.)

That said, and from what I've experienced and learned, I think I can 
offer only this advice: First of all, no matter how "good" you are at 
presenting a transcription system for the reader, inevitably, there are 
names which people will either have difficulty pronouncing or botch up 
entirely without further investigating the proper pronunciations of your 
language's sounds. And let's be clear, not everyone--I dare say not the 
large majority--of your readers will even bother with that, sadly. 
Secondly, as a writer, you do have an obligation, first and foremost, to 
making your work readable and presentable to the general public, not 
experts in your languages. Thus, you should attempt to represent it in a 
form which is highly approachable. Does that mean you won't have any 
diacritical marks? Perhaps no and perhaps yes.

Consider this: there are plenty of translations of the Mahabharata and 
the Ramayana (to go back to Indian languages again) which do not use the 
otherwise essential diacritical marks on names. Long and short *a* are 
merely represented as "a." Same goes for o, e, u, i and even any complex 
consonant sounds (think Vishnu: most people pronounce it as Vish-noo, 
but in some Indian languages (perhaps even Sanskrit--on this I'm 
uncertain) the v sound is something closer to a sound between v and 
w--putting your upper teeth near the lower lips and blowing through the 
air passage--than it is to English v, yet Vish-noo is still an 
acceptable pronunciation for non-native speakers). Thus, as Tolkien did, 
you can always append your pronunciation guide, and perhaps even the 
"proper" spellings of names and words, to the end of your book.

After all, don't forget (since Stevo mentioned Tolkien), the name Frodo 
was actually (according to Tolkien) supposed to be transcribed Froda 
(given masculine Hobbit names ended with "a"), however Tolkien changed 
the transcription to help Anglicise the name (and help it not look 
feminine to the reader). Also, Took would actually be transcribed Tuk 
(with a chevron over the u).

That's all just food for thought. For myself, I'm still negotiating my 
way through a similar problem, but as a writer, you do have to 
standardise a way of represent the sounds in an approachable way to the 
reader, even if it is slightly inaccurate and you're forced, in an 
appendix, to do as Tolkien did and explain the true spellings and why 
you made the choices you did. I hope that all helps! Good luck with it 
all, and wish me the same. All the best.

Sincerely,
J. M. DeSantis
Writer - Illustrator

Official Website: jmdesantis.com <http://www.jmdesantis.com>
On 7/29/2012 3:39 PM, Dustfinger Batailleur wrote:
> It's often not enough to represent the wide range of sounds in the
> languages of the world.
>
> On 29 July 2012 15:36, MorphemeAddict <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> Tolkien solved this problem using only a few simple diacritical marks on
>> ordinary letters. I think that's a reasonable solution.
>>
>> stevo
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 29, 2012 at 2:35 PM, Dustfinger Batailleur <
>> [log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm currently writing a fantasy/sci-fi book which is on a planet with a
>>> very large amount of sentient species, and so loads of different and
>> often
>>> unrelated languages. A problem arose, which is how I would encode the
>>> phonetic values of the languages and words and such. I came up with a few
>>> options:
>>>
>>> A) Use IPA - Obviously an eyesore for laymen readers, and some of the
>>> sounds I'll have aren't even in IPA as they are unpronounceable by humans
>>> so I'll have to make special characters for them.
>>>
>>> B) Use my own transcription system - while it may be slightly easier for
>>> laymen to read, it still would have diacritic and strange symbol overload
>>> and people would have a hard time reading it.
>>>
>>> C) Try to use English to transcribe sounds - even worse than the other
>>> choices, it can only represent a small fraction of the sounds I'll need
>>> accurately.
>>>
>>> None of these methods work, so how do I solve this problem?
>>>
>
>

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