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CONLANG Home

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CONLANG  July 2012, Week 5

CONLANG July 2012, Week 5

Subject:

Re: Adjective Suffixes/Prefixes

From:

R A Brown <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

[log in to unmask]

Date:

Mon, 30 Jul 2012 08:37:19 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (153 lines)

On 29/07/2012 14:36, J. M. DeSantis wrote:
[snip] of
> language has never been my strong suit.
>
> Basically, as do nouns and verbs in most languages, I was
> wondering if all languages had standard suffixes or
> prefixes for their adjectives?

No - because not all languages have a distinct adjective
category.

> The reason I'm wondering is because, as in English (which
> I try to avoid using as an example), we have adjectives
> like continuous, joyous (using -ous), princely, happily
> and mindfully (using -ly, perhaps the most common way to
> create an adjective in English),

While _princely_ is indeed and adjective, _happily_ and
_mindfully_ are *adverbs* - their corresponding adjectives
are: happy, mindful.

> but we also have adjectives like green, great and
> handsome which don't have endings similar to other
> adjectives or at least very few.

Tho _handsome_ ends in -some (as do, e.g.
lonesome,frolicsome), _green_ and _great_ have no affix to
denote that they are adjectives.

> So, what I'm wondering is if most natlangs and conlangs
> do the same with their adjectives (having a combination
> of adjective-specific endings with seemingly random,
> un-categorised by prefixes/suffixes adjectives)?

Most certainly not. As I observed above, not all natlangs
even have a specific adjective category.  As for conlangs,
all sorts strange things occur   ;)


> Or if this is another case of English being the exception
> to the rule of most other natlangs,

Nope!

In Latin & Greek, for example, there is nor formal
distinction between nouns and adjectives; while, in Latin,
words ending, e.g. in -ivus, -osus are likely to be used
adjectivally, rather than as nouns, there is nothing that
warns us, e.g. that _magnus_ is more likely to mean "big" as
an adjective, rather than "a big person."

Other languages, e.g. Chinese & Japanese use stative verbs
rather than adjectives.
===========================================================

On 29/07/2012 15:18, Dustfinger Batailleur wrote:
> Happily and mindfully are adverbs.
>
> And English is a bit on the isolating side (although not
>  much), and so a word can become an adjective by being in
>  front of a noun as opposed to using suffixes and such.

I assume you're thinking of what we used to call 'epithet
nouns' when I was at school in the 1950s, e.g. _city
streets_, _beauty parlor_.

But there is a distinct difference between, e.g. 'a beauty
parlor' and 'a beautiful parlor.'  "Beautiful" is derived
from "beauty" with the suffix -ful, and is a true adjective.
  In the phrase "beauty parlor" we effectively have a
compound; we could, e.g. write "beauty-parlor" but by
convention prefer to use white space rather than a hyphen
between the two elements.

[snip]
>
> True isolating languages like Chinese have no such
> suffixes or similar things as far as I know,

Chines is not a true isolating language and doe possesses
bound morphemes, i.e. affixes.  For example: _jiēshi_ "(to
be) tough", _zhòngshi_ "(to be) strong" and _lǎoshi_ "(to
be) honest: all have the formative suffix -shi; _gōngdao_
"(to be) generous" and _bàdao_ "(to be) aggressive" both
have the formative suffix -dao.

Indeed, if one looks in the Conlang archives, one finds
threads where conlangers have argued whether English is more
isolating than Chinese.

Whereas, I understand (and have no reason to doubt)
Vietnamese is purely isolating and syntax and context
determines the function of the word.
==============================================================

On 29/07/2012 16:08, David McCann wrote:
[snip]e
> one or more suffixes for making nouns into adjectives.
>
> A language doesn't have to have adjectives at all.

Yes, indeed, it does not.

> You can use nouns attributively, as we do with a "metal
> bar" as opposed to a "wooden bar". Even commoner is using
> a verb. Chinese translates English adjectives as verbs.
> Swahili has a small collection (about 50?) of "real"
> adjectives, and then uses verbs.

I believe also a genitive construction is possible in
Swahili, tho I haven't checked.  But certain expression like
"a thing of beauty" rather than "a beautiful thing" are not
uncommon among the world's languages.
=========================================================

On 29/07/2012 21:43, Alex Fink wrote:
> On Sun, 29 Jul 2012 16:08:29 +0100, David McCann
> <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> They may inflect for agreement with the noun they
>> qualify, in gender, number, and case. The rule is that
>> if the adjective follows the noun, then it must
>> inflect if the noun does.
>
> How robust is that?

Not very, methinks - certainly _must_ is incorrect; "tend
to" may be true, but even that, I think, is doubtful once
one moves away from Europe.

It doesn't apply in English in the few instances where
adjective are placed after the noun, cf.
court martial ~ courts martial
heir apparent ~ heirs apparent
poet laureate ~ poets laureate

Not *courts matrials, etc

In Welsh, where adjectives regularly follow nouns (there a
few, ass in the Romance languages, that do precede, but the
norm is to follow the noun), the majority of adjectives are
invariable and don't change when the noun is plural.  The few
survivals of plural adjectives are confined to set phrases.

-- 
Ray
==================================
http://www.carolandray.plus.com
==================================
Nid rhy hen neb i ddysgu.
There's none too old to learn.
[WELSH PROVERB]

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