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CONLANG Home

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CONLANG  August 2012, Week 2

CONLANG August 2012, Week 2

Subject:

Re: Nations

From:

"Mike S." <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 10 Aug 2012 00:26:40 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (67 lines)

On Tue, Aug 7, 2012 at 10:54 AM, R A Brown <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> On 07/08/2012 08:07, A. da Mek wrote:
>>>
>>> The spread of English as the national language of many
>>> different nations has been noted; one could also note
>>> the same of Spanish which IIRC is the official language
>>> of more than 20 nations.
>>
>>
>> The question is: are they really nations in the original
>> sense, or was this word reused with a new meaning?
>
>
> Hey, my anglophone cousins across the Pond!
>
> Seems like Abe was reusing "nation" with a new meaning at
> Gettysburg:
> "Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on
> this continent a new nation, conceived in liberty, and
> dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal."
>
> You ain't a nation in the original sense at all, just a ....
>
>> It seems to me that in US the word "national" became a
>> mere synonym of "federal".
>
>
> ... a federation of 50 States.
>
> I guess old Abe should have said:
> "Eighty seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this
> continent a new federation of states, conceived in liberty,
> and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created
> equal."
>
> What claptrap!
>
To be honest, I think that words similar to Lincoln's would be
"claptrap" if an American president said them in this year, but they
wouldn't be in 1863.

It may be hard to imagine this today, but America started out with a
confident, bedrock national identity -- we were the White Anglo-Saxon
(i.e. Anglo-Celtic) Protestants living in America.  In 1776, we
decided for certain reasons that we no longer owed allegiance to the
British crown.  That's who we were.  John Jay wrote in the Federalist
Papers in 1787:

"With equal pleasure I have as often taken notice that Providence has
been pleased to give this one connected country to one united people
-- a people descended from the same ancestors, speaking the same
language, professing the same religion, attached to the same
principles of government, very similar in their manners and customs,
and who, by their joint counsels, arms, and efforts, fighting side by
side throughout a long and bloody war, have nobly established general
liberty and independence."

In the time of Lincoln, we still had a common language, a common
reformed-Protestant religious heritage, a common
Enlightenment-inspired political culture, a common history proceeding
from the Revolution and earlier, and common lines of ethnic descent
predominantly traced to Britain.  A LOT of people in Lincoln's time
were highly nationalistic about America, especially in the North, but
also in the South.

If that's not the snapshot of a nation, then I say nothing is.

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