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CONLANG  August 2012, Week 2

CONLANG August 2012, Week 2

Subject:

Re: [CHAT] Re: Nations

From:

"Mike S." <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 10 Aug 2012 20:35:42 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (79 lines)

On Fri, Aug 10, 2012 at 6:56 PM, Scott Kyle Marcroft
<[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> On 8/10/2012 5:51 PM, Mike S. wrote:
>>
>> Seriously, at the time that document was signed, the White segment of
>> the USA was more than 4/5 British (incl Irish) descent.  Specifically,
>> it was about 2/3 English, a majority.  The rest were mainly Dutch,
>> German, Swedish, French Huguenot and a sprinkling of others.  It was
>> something like 98% Protestant.
>
> This is simply not true. Even if you simply look at the slave population
> your numbers do not work.
> I am fairly certain they did not get off the ship speaking English. German,
> French and other languages were
> spoken in moderately large numbers in mid eighteenth century America as
> well.
>
What's simply not true?  You can find the numbers here -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_the_United_States#Population_in_1790

Some interesting facts:

As I wrote earlier, the White segment of the USA was about 81%
British-descended (2.56M British out of 3.14M Whites) around the time
of the War for Independence. Whites themselves were a solid majority
(> 80% of total population).

Even counting the Blacks (< 20% of the total), people of English
descent were the majority ethnicity in the early USA (2.1M out of 3.9M
= 54%), and British nationalities made up about a two-thirds majority
(2.56M / 3.9M = 66%).

None of this should seem surprising or controversial.  The USA was
formed from _British_ colonies, after all.

>>
>>> John Jay was writing as a privileged white man. I think it says more
>>> about
>>> how women and
>>> blacks were accounted for in the forming documents of the nation.
>>>
>> *shrugs*  I always find it anachronistic and frankly a little silly to
>> fault historical figures for a perceived lack of 21st-century style
>> Political Correctness, which is what you seem to be doing here.
>
>
> What I was doing was showing that your quote from Jay was from a single
> perspective
> of someone in the empowered class. It shows little about the overall makeup
> of the
> people.
>
Regardless of how you analyze his motives, Jay's statement is true
given the numbers I have sourced on Wikipedia.  As Roger Mills pointed
out, the USA always had plenty of different ethnic communities,
especially little Europes of various sorts, but _taken as a whole_ the
early USA was more or a less an ethnic/cultural budding-off of
Britain.  That's why we still speak English and have laws based on
English law and have other cultural/political traits traceable to
British origins.  That's really what made America what it is, at least
for the first century or so.

>>
>>> You may want to revisit you definition of a nation.
>>>
>> I believe that my definition is the simple, conventional one but
>> thanks for the suggestion.
>
>
> To each his own. I was simply trying to give another perspective on things.
> History is written by
> the 'winners' not usually as a collaborative effort from the group.

Who are the winners then?  The WASPs who founded America?  Oddly
enough, it's hard to find a modern history book or college professor
that fails to excoriate WASPs for slavery and other wrongs in the
past.  All I can say is that if WASPs are winners and winners write
the history, then WASPs are awfully curious winners.

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