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CONLANG Home

CONLANG Home

CONLANG  August 2012, Week 2

CONLANG August 2012, Week 2

Subject:

Re: [CHAT] Re: Nations

From:

"Mike S." <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 11 Aug 2012 03:00:18 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (75 lines)

On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 1:15 AM, Scott Kyle Marcroft
<[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Did you just seriously cite wikipedia as a source? You realize even grade
> school children require
> better sources. Let us just go with what you have. First you pick 1790 which

This is an informal chat, not a paper for some class.  The section of
Wikipedia that I cited is based on a credible source which is there
noted which you can check out yourself.  The numbers gibe with the
ones I have seen other places.


> is 15 years after
> the start of the revolution. A war that actually drew people to the
> continent to make the name and

Actually, it's well known that there was very little immigration to
the USA from the start of the revolution until 1820.  Nearly all the
population growth during those years was due to native fecundity,
notwithstanding a few Hessian deserters left over from the war, the
slave trade which continued until 1808, and the odd adventurer from
Europe seeking a new life.


> fortune. Second, the census does not account for ethnicity and language of
> all people since ONLY
> land holding men were polled. Also your source clearly shows that prior to

Not very likely.  All the states had an interest in reporting the full
population accurately because regardless of race, the greater the
population the greater the representation in Congress. Slaves counted
for 3/5 of a free person for purposes of calculating this
representation, but they tended to add up in the South.


> this period that slaves
> accounted for the same numbers as English and Scots-Irish combined.
>

The only place that the number of slaves came anywhere close to that
of free people of British descent was in the South.  Overall, as
mentioned, the early USA was about two thirds English and Scots-Irish.
 About a fifth were of African origin and the rest were mostly Dutch
and German.

>
> More people were likely speaking an Iriquois  language of some sort than
> English
> in say 1760. We could easily spoken German. Did the slaves speak English
> when they
> arrived?
>
Decades before 1760 the Iroquois and related tribes had already
thinned to fewer than 50,000.  At the same time, the 1760 population
of the thirteen colonies was about 1.5 million.  At least two-thirds
of those were English speakers and much of the other third was under
pressure to learn.  There is no comparison in the time period under
question.

The idea that German was ever a serious rival of English in the USA is
a quaint piece of folk history.  Though it is true that it was spoken
by long-settled families in many homes and communities up until the
early 20th c. of course.

>
> You are using people writing about history to prove a point about the
> history itself.
> The English, and to some extent the Dutch, were the people with money. The
> traders
> the crown seeded their colony with. The slaves were forced to learn English
> if anyone
> even cared what they spoke and the natives did as well to communicate. WASPs
> were the
> winners. Just look at the income and living standards of 1950's America.

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