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CONLANG  October 2012, Week 3

CONLANG October 2012, Week 3

Subject:

Re: some metathesis with vowel loss

From:

neo gu <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 20 Oct 2012 20:17:04 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (65 lines)

On Thu, 18 Oct 2012 23:06:57 -0700, Alex Fink <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

>(Onlist again, this is interesting.  I trust you don't mind.)
>
>On 18 October 2012 20:55, Jeffrey Jones <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>> My main comment of substance is not on this morphophonemic process but
>>> something blander which your list puts me in mind of.  I notice that you
>>> have a habit in your conlangs of, as it were, filling out the space of
>>> possible affixes.  If your morphology demands prefixes in certain roles,
>>> say, then you seem to operate by picking a new distinct CV- form for each
>>> one, working through the grid of Cs and Vs (until maybe it fills up).
>>
>> I find that process hard to avoid, especially when I want to keep
>> sentences short.
>
>I see.  I have that problem with some languages, but it usually feels
>to me as though it's on account of too many categories needing nonzero
>marking; often, when I have it, the markings are somewhat fusional
>anyway.
>
>Or else -- similarly, but a problem I have a harder time getting my
>head around -- too much syntax needing a nonzero marking, as it were.
>You know, there are all these?potentially word-saving syntactic
>phenomena, from small clauses to pivot behaviours to default
>possessors to any of a thousand more lexical things, which I always
>default to not including so as not to slavishly copy whatever language
>I'm thinking of, but that just leads to verbosity.

I tend to include them.

>>> observing which categories have the same form as their exponent, especially
>>
>> I don't understand your terminology there.
>
>By "exponent" I just mean "the linguistic material realizing [a given
>category]".

I do have some forms which fall together. Where the TAM marking is 0, -se (antipassive) and -si (3ip) become -s after vowel-stems (otherwise, TAM follows grammatical voice but precedes person and number). Also, the TAM = 0 stem is used for perfective in certain contexts as well as being the retrospective or stative participle.

>>> So does a greater degree of variation in length and syllable-structural
>>> makeup (e.g. some things are just recently grammaticalised).
>>
>> I've been thinking about possible historical justifications, for this
>> particular sketch. Possibly, the immediate protolanguage was isolating
>> with only CV syllables & CV/CVCV words which were reduced from
>> something more complex. And maybe grammatical homonyms were weeded out
>> in favor of less ambiguous alternatives.
>
>Hm.  I could certainly be convinced, but I'd find it strange if this
>had developed from an isolating language, on the grounds that
>mutations are significantly rarer than inter-word sound changes, and
>the kind of change you need for this metathesis to kick in, roughly
>CV1CV2 > CV1G2CV2  (where G2 is a glide towards vowel V2) seems
>particularly unlikely to catch on as a mutation given that it provides
>five(?) forms for each final syllable, determined in a completely
>random lexical way by the following form.  It seems to me likelier
>that the immediate protolanguage should have been agglutinative and
>the grandmother language as you describe.
>
>Alex

Perhaps the parts of the word involved in the mutation -- the noun plural/derivational prefixes and the roots -- have agglutinated at the immediate protolanguage stage while the more inflectional parts haven't. As for the actual metathesis, I was thinking something like
CVCV2CV  >  C@CV2CV  >  CV2CV2CV  >  CV2CCV
might work.

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