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AUXLANG  October 2012, Week 4

AUXLANG October 2012, Week 4

Subject:

Re: EU Language Policy and an Auxiliary Language

From:

Paul Bartlett <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 23 Oct 2012 18:01:54 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (110 lines)

On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 16:07:43 -0400, Risto Kupsala <[log in to unmask]>  
wrote:

> 13.10.2012 6:55, Stephen Rice kirjoitti:
>> On 10/12/12, Risto Kupsala <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

>>> The EU language policy is correct in
>>> principle. The official languages of all the member states need to be
>>> official also in the EU. Officializing only a few large languages would
>>> marginalize the rest. We don't want that.
>> But if they're all official, they all need to be represented by
>> translations. Adding an auxlang would be just adding one more language
>> for translation.
>
> The auxlang should be the official working language of the EU. Of course  
> a lot of documents should be still translated to all official languages,  
> the most important documents by default and other ones by request. Need  
> for translation and interpretation lessens as proficiency in the auxlang  
> grows.

Question: are we talking about an auxlang just for the eurocrats in  
Brussels, say, or an auxlang for all people in the EU in their regular  
affairs? A language for use in the European Parliament, or for a tourist  
 from Helsinki wanting to by coffee at a shop in Trieste or Prague? And, of  
course, there is the matter of whether consideration of an auxlang should  
be restricted just to the EU or allowed for a larger at least potential  
audience / user base (such as non-EU European nations and other societies  
of more or less western civilization).

>>> There is a need for a neutral common working language in the EU.
>>> Esperanto or something similar would be suitable because of its
>>> flexibility. Our languages are diverse and the working language should
>>> be able to convey enough of that diversity. All European languages and
>>> cultures should be able to contribute to the common language.
>> Which would make it inaccessible to the masses. The only way around
>> typical human inertia is something that at least looks effortless, and
>> that means "at sight."
>
> Let's end this nonsense short. There is no at-sight language for the  
> whole EU. Romance and Anglo-Romance simply don't fit the bill. So it's  
> best just to forget the naturalistic auxlangs and concentrate on  
> schematic ones, because the latter are more equally easy to everybody.

What about Otto Jespersens's idea that that auxiliary language is best  
which in the most points offers the greatest ease to the greatest number?  
I personally do not support this particular idea, but there are those who  
do, in which case they support something more along the idea of  
Interlingua / Occidental / even Esperanto. And can we even design an  
auxlang which is "more equally easy to everybody"? We have to be careful  
here, in that most of our discussion relates to adult learners, whereas  
Mario Pei pointed out long ago (i.e., 1950s in "One Language for the  
World") that for young children in immersion environments, all languages  
are approximately equally easy. If an auxlang -- any auxlang -- were to  
take off in the EU (or anywhere else, for that matter), presumably it  
would eventually be taught to young children, so in terms of ease of  
learning, at-sight versus schematicism become relatively insignificant as  
such.

>>> The EU could remake Esperanto,
>>> which would be a good thing, but I'm afraid it can't remake English...
>> I'd argue that the other way. Eo can't be changed now; it has too many
>> users, and they would be needed to teach the language and ease its
>> adoption.
>
> Then the best options are to pick a less established auxlang or to  
> create a new one.

But I wonder whether at this point any auxlang (i.e., conIAL, which is  
what we are talking about here) *other* than Esperanto has any ghost of a  
chance. E-o is far, far ahead of all other conIALs put together. Given  
whatever current situation there is (and I know that years ago I used to  
differ from the late Don Harlow over this), of all now existing conIALs I  
think only E-o has much prospect at all for wider acceptance and use (and  
it is not even my personal favorite). Can the advocates of any new  
constructed languages have any hope that their projects have any chance at  
success? If in 125 years not even Esperanto has come into much more than  
hobby use, what are the prospects for some newly constructed language?  
Build a better mousetrap, and the world will beat a path to your door?  
Hardly.

>> English, on the other hand, isn't strongly standardized:
>> there are several regional varieties, and it could be intentionally
>> creolized to produce an easy language with a large ready-made
>> vocabulary.
>
> English is such a mess already now that we shouldn't even consider it  
> for the future. It has two unattainable prestige dialects, too greatly  
> differing European accents, uncontinental pronunciation, horrid spelling  
> and bloated vocabulary. The final creolized language would not look or  
> sound anything like English, so what's the point of basing it on English  
> in the first place?

I myself doubt that any creolized English has any realistic chances at  
all, so little that I myself think it would be a waste of time to try to  
develop some sort of artificially creolized English and have any hope of  
getting it accepted and widely used. But I agree, even as an educated,  
literate speaker of (General American) English, that English is sort of a  
mess. Yes, it has relatively (but only relatively) widespread use for now,  
but I know from having tried to help others learn English as a second  
language that it is not easy. And yes, the spelling is abominable, even  
for native speakers, but all attempts in modern times to reform the  
spelling have failed (and anyway, which of the two major dialect groups  
would be the basis for the reform?). Certainly there are serious issues  
with English as an auxlang; it is only the current and recent-past  
influence of the USA that, as far as I can tell, has led to its wider use  
at present.

-- 
Paul Bartlett

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February 2003, Week 1
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January 2003, Week 4
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January 2003, Week 1
December 2002, Week 5
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October 2002, Week 5
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October 2002, Week 1
September 2002, Week 5
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March 2002, Week 1
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January 2002, Week 3
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January 2002, Week 1
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October 2001, Week 1
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June 2001, Week 5
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March 2001, Week 1
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February 2001, Week 2
February 2001, Week 1
January 2001, Week 5
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January 2001, Week 3
January 2001, Week 2
January 2001, Week 1
December 2000, Week 5
December 2000, Week 4
December 2000, Week 3
December 2000, Week 2
December 2000, Week 1
November 2000, Week 5
November 2000, Week 4
November 2000, Week 3
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October 2000, Week 5
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October 2000, Week 3
October 2000, Week 2
October 2000, Week 1
September 2000, Week 5
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September 2000, Week 1
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April 2000, Week 5
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April 2000, Week 3
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April 2000, Week 1
March 2000, Week 5
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March 2000, Week 3
March 2000, Week 2
March 2000, Week 1
February 2000, Week 5
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February 2000, Week 3
February 2000, Week 2
February 2000, Week 1
January 2000, Week 5
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January 2000, Week 1
December 1999, Week 5
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October 1999, Week 1
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December 1998, Week 5
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June 1998, Week 3
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June 1998, Week 1
May 1998, Week 5
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April 1998, Week 5
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March 1998, Week 5
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December 1997, Week 5
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April 1997, Week 1
March 1997, Week 5
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March 1997, Week 3
March 1997, Week 2
March 1997, Week 1
February 1997, Week 5
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