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CONLANG Home

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CONLANG  October 2012, Week 5

CONLANG October 2012, Week 5

Subject:

Re: Constructed sign languages

From:

Brian Woodward <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 30 Oct 2012 16:40:19 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (105 lines)

That was an awesome test. It looks like you we're turning English into a Conlang.

Brian

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 30, 2012, at 16:30, Patrick Dunn <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> It seems like this would be an easy claim to test.
> 
> It seems and dkwi this wago this our
> seems like this would beough on this
> seem like this would be easy and dedi
> 
> Hmm, okay, yeah, it is pretty difficult to produce a speech stream and type
> at the same time, at least for me.  I find myself losing track of the
> syntax of what I'm typing and then typing what I say.  If I were actually
> trying to *produce* speech rather recite the Gettysburg address, it'd
> probably be a lot harder.
> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 4:24 PM, Adam Walker <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> 
>> On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 4:04 PM, George Corley <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> 
>>> On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 12:47 PM, Padraic Brown <[log in to unmask]>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Myeh. I can't agree with that. Examples have already been mentioned
>>>> of signing & talking two different things; writing two different things
>>>> and writing and talking two different things all at the same time. I
>>> think
>>>> that to say it is "impossible" to produce two streams of language is a
>>>> non-starter. Very taxing? I don't disagree with that at all! Everything
>>>> is taxing, until one becomes practiced at it.
>>>> 
>>>> Just because we don't do a thing, doesn't mean we can't easily do that
>>>> thing if we put our minds to it.
>>> 
>>> I should clarify that I did not mean "impossible" in general, but
>>> impossible or very taxing for a specific individual (perhaps with a
>>> specific level of skill).  However, I was watching a sign language
>>> interpreter and realized that people often sign and speak English (or
>> mouth
>>> English words) at the same time.  Usually it involves the same content,
>> but
>>> the difference in syntax alone should require two independent linguistic
>>> streams at once.  It would be interesting to know if people show more
>>> English influence in their ASL syntax when speaking and signing at the
>> same
>>> time, as opposed to only signing.
>> SimCom (simultaneous communication) tends to produce distortions of both
>> the ASL and the English output.  You just can't time both streams of
>> information to match precisely, let alone get all the nuances of intonation
>> and prosody and such to match up.  It's hard to do well and impossible to
>> do perfectly for non-memorized data streams.
>> 
>> 
>>> Interpreting in general is another issue.  Now, listening and production
>>> are known to work differently in the brain, IIRC, so it may not be too
>>> surprising that people are capable of listening and talking at the same
>>> time.
>> 
>> 
>> As an interpreter for ASL, I can tell you that it is tiring.  I interpret
>> for services at my congregation.  Unlike voice interpreters who get to
>> interpret by spells (the speaker talks a bit; then the interpreter
>> translates), for ASL interpreting it's non-stop flow and you have to keep
>> up with whatever the speaking rate of the speaker may be.  So you have to
>> listen and produce at the same time.  You can only hold so much in
>> short-term memory while you decide how to translate it before you miss
>> something and have to dump it and go on to the next idea before that's
>> lost.  The grammar used in Paul's epistles in the New Testament is
>> especially frightful to translate off the cuff at normal reading speeds,
>> but then too so is Hebrew terminology peppered into the drash on the Torah
>> portion.  I can't say I always do the best job, but it's good enough that I
>> haven't had any complaints about my interpreting (complaints about the
>> angle at which I sit, the length of my hair and the size of my signs when
>> interpreting very loud sections, yes, but not about the quality of the
>> interpretation).
>> 
>> 
>>> I'm also curious, given my own experience, whether having two
>>> linguistic tasks in different languages is easier in general than two
>>> linguistic tasks in the same language -- especially where one is the
>>> speaker's native language and another is a second language, since
>>> second languages learned in adulthood are apparently stored differently
>>> than native language information.  Surely there is some research on this
>>> topic.
>> 
>> I can't offer anything useful on this question.
>> 
>> Adam
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Second Person, a chapbook of poetry by Patrick Dunn, is now available for
> order from Finishing Line
> Press<http://www.finishinglinepress.com/NewReleasesandForthcomingTitles.htm>
> and
> Amazon<http://www.amazon.com/Second-Person-Patrick-Dunn/dp/1599249065/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1324342341&sr=8-2>.

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