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CONLANG  October 2012, Week 5

CONLANG October 2012, Week 5

Subject:

Re: Constructed sign languages

From:

Shair Ahmed <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 31 Oct 2012 02:14:37 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (104 lines)

My God, 8'0i is interesting. Thank you so much,  Alex, for informing me of
it, and you too, Leland, for posting the document.


2012/10/31 Alex Fink <[log in to unmask]>

> On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 17:11:00 -0700, Leland Kusmer <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
> >Sorry I'm late to this thread, folks!
> >
> >On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 5:39 PM, Alex Fink <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >>
> >> > I just remembered one!  Leland Paul has made one, called 8'0i.  I
> don't
> >> > know of any documentation, but here's a video of it in use on Youtube:
> >> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IDvlbUftx4w   It has a script too!
> >
> >Thanks for that, Alex. I'm sorry there's not more documentation online
> yet.
> >I created 8'0i as part of a conlanging class in college, actually, and
> >currently consider it my primary language (though I haven't done much on
> it
> >in the last year or so).
> >
> >I'm actually enormously glad that this thread came up, because it prompted
> >me to go digging through my files and find my full grammar sketch, which I
> >had believed to be lost! It's in PDF form, but I've made it available at
> >the link below. This covers everything I knew about the language as of the
> >spring of 2011; a few things have changed since, but not the fundamentals.
> >It even includes the babeltext, albiet only in a terrible scan of my
> >handwritten 8'0i script!
> >
> >https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B9j_ilXfbiTtMkpVeHRrTU5UQXc
>
> Delightful!
>
> How, if at all, do you speak the name "8'0i"?
>
> Have you given thought to influences of 8'0i on the spoken languages in
> its territory?  In particular, I imagine they can easily calque from it,
> but do they directly borrow from it, and if so do is this as handsigns in
> an otherwise spoken matrix or something more nativizing somehow?  (Are
> there, like, "handshape-words" that give the mirror image of initialized
> borrowings in ASL?)
>
> Where did Low get all the extra handshapes, and the wiggling, and the
> other features that seem like unconditioned splits?  Are they survivals
> from Old that were lost in the poetic tradition that became Classical?
>
> What is the phonetic content of the index pluraliser /-p/?
>
> What is the notational difference between handshapes 7 and 10, which both
> look like eights to me?
>
> Is there a guideline to know which orientation to read signs in if you
> don't write it?  I can't always tell which one's supposed to be natural.
>
> What sort of subsyllabic affixes or other processes are there that make
> forms to which rule 2.4 applies?  For the other rules I imagine compounding
> at least provides input.
>
> ... more later perhaps, sleep beckons.
>
> >(I do apologize for the
> >inexplicable lines starting with "!!"  those were notes to myself in the
> >compilation of this document, in LaTeX, that I apparently never got around
> >to following up on...)
>
> (I do that too; my convention is [[double square brackets]], though
> sometimes \marginpar.)
>
> >My understanding is that sign languages very quite heavily in their use of
> >non-manual components, though personally I'm extremely skeptical that any
> >would use none at all. It was an aesthetic choice (and one that I'm sure
> >would be critiqued as extremely Hearing-biased by the Deaf community) for
> >me to use fewer in 8'0i.
>
> So you've studied sign languages in cross-linguistic perspective, then?
>  I've seen more or less no material on that, and would like to.
>
> And by the Deaf community, I take it you mean the ASL one?  As previous
> threads have established, the things they find hearing-biased are by far
> not the ones I might've guessed from a state of no knowledge.  Writing
> one's own language is too hearingy, but imposing a vast layer of
> initialized relexification on it from English is not?
>
> >For ASL and 8'0i,
> >anyway, I find it fairly intuitive to treat handshapes as analogous to
> >consonants, locations to vowels, and secondary movements to tone (with
> >non-manuals as more-or-less utterance level intonation).
>
> Huh, that differs both from Perlmutter and from the ugly thing I tried to
> make once <http://000024.org/conlang/ASL-spoken.html> which in my copious
> spare time I hope to make non-ugly someday.  (After the foodlang, perhaps.)
>
> I suppose a nice feature of your assignment of handshape = C, place = V is
> that in ASL (and in 8'0i) the set of handshapes seems richer in structure
> than the set of places.   But it still seems not quite as good a fit from
> the achieving structural isomorphism perspective.
>
> Alex
>

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