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CONLANG  November 2012, Week 2

CONLANG November 2012, Week 2

Subject:

French diglossia (was and I/me in other languages)

From:

R A Brown <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 13 Nov 2012 13:38:34 +0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (71 lines)

On 13/11/2012 07:46, Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets wrote:
> On 12 November 2012 20:42, And Rosta wrote:
>
>> Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets, On 09/11/2012 08:06:
[snip]

>>
>> What do you see the difference between prefix and
>> clitic as being, and what arguments point to _je_
>> being a prefix?
>>
>>
> It's a sliding scale, so my arguments may not seem
> compelling to you as they seem to me, but to me the main
> difference between a clitic and a prefix is that a
> clitic

[etc. snipped, but read with interest]

Yes, the borders between clitic and prefix on the one hand
and clitic & particle on the other are fuzzy; but IMO you
have argued the case well as regards modern French.


[snip]
> Spoken French paradigm of the verb _être_: "to be" is:
> /ʃsɥi/: I am
 > /tyˈɛ/: you (sg) are
 > /iˈlɛ/: he, it is
> /ɛˈlɛ/: she, it is
 > /ɔ̃ˈnɛ/: one is, we are
 > /vuˈzɛt/: you (pl) are
 > /ilˈsɔ̃/: they (m, n) are
 > /ɛlˈsɔ̃/: they (f)

Interesting. So the _puis-je_ that I learnt at school in the
1950s is no longer part of spoken French, I guess.
Presumably one now says: Est-ce que je peux? (Which was
always possible even 60 or so years ago :)

I noticed way back in the 1960s there was a tendency to use
the subject verb complement even if a noun subject was
expressed, e.g. La clé elle (ne) marche pas.

I assume this now the norm in modern spoken French.

>
> Naturally, things are a bit muddied by the fact that
> French is effectively a diglossia, not unlike the
> situation in Latin or the situation in most Arabic
> countries nowadays.

Or in modern Greece, at least prior to 1981.

[snip]
> This makes it sometimes a bit difficult to mark the
> border between Spoken French and Written French, but it
> doesn't mean those two varieties don't exist. It just
> means code-switching is common :) .

Sure.

--
Ray
==================================
http://www.carolandray.plus.com
==================================
Nid rhy hen neb i ddysgu.
There's none too old to learn.
[WELSH PROVERB]

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