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CONLANG Home

CONLANG Home

CONLANG  November 2012, Week 2

CONLANG November 2012, Week 2

Subject:

Re: Verb encoding strategies

From:

Zach Wellstood <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 14 Nov 2012 21:57:49 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (88 lines)

I just read an idiom in Navajo that means "he died," but translates to,
"The moose through him up in the air in a puff of smoke." I unfortunately
don't have the book (The Oxford Handbook of Comparative Syntax
http://www.amazon.com/Oxford-Handbook-Comparative-Syntax-Handbooks/dp/0195136519),
but I distinctly remember that the verb encoded the information "to throw
something up into the air and have it explode in a puff." This is in
keeping with my Introling textbook, Contemporary Linguistics Sixth Edition,
which has a section about the semantics of motion verbs. It has examples
from English (motion+manner), French (motion+path), and Atsugewi
(motion+type of thing moved). The examples it gives are "lup," "the
movement of a small, shiny spherical object, ie hailstone" ; "t," "the
movement of a smallish, flat object that can be attached to something else,
ie a stamp or a shingle" ; and "caq," the movement of a slimy, lumpish
object, ie a toad or cow dropping." There are other examples, too, but you
get the point. For this section, the book cites Talmy (1985).

I find this beyond interesting, but I unfortunately haven't really felt
confident enough in my knowledge of this to incorporate it too much in łaá
siri. It's always on the fringes of my conlanging. So, I have specific verb
roots for somethings like:

-łaa’atłii’ 1: to move across terrain, TO TRAVEL; 2: to overcome an
obstacle (this wouldn't be used if you, for instance, were going to the
store. It'd have to be used if you went on a hike from one kind of terrain
to another, like in the from the desert -> the Rocky Mountains or
something).

 -łarritłilá the movement of a cloud, TO DRIFT (I couldn't think of a good
English word, so drift was the best alternative, but this can only be used
for clouds.)

But I'd like to incorporate a specific set of distinctions more faithfully.

I agree, there's definitely ground to explore!

Zach


On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 9:33 PM, Herman Miller <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> On 11/14/2012 4:39 PM, Adam Walker wrote:
>
>> I've been reading up on the whole path vs. manner thing with verbs in my
>> quest to make Gravgaln feel more "right."  One paper I'm reading
>> "Linguistic Typology in Motion Events: Path and Manner" by Iraide
>> Ibarretxe-Antuñano (sorry I can't seem to find the date, but looks like it
>> might be 2002 or 3 judging by the bib.) gives an interesting breakdown of
>> "motion events" into six basic semantic elements (borrowed from Talmy,
>> 1985):
>>
>> I. Figure -- the moving object
>> II. Ground -- entity or entities the Figure moves in relation to
>> III. Path -- course and/or trajectory of the Figure
>> IV. Motion -- the presence of motion per se
>> V. Manner -- the way in which the motion is performed
>> VI. Cause -- what originated the motion
>>
>> Some languages, like English (and apparantly other Germanic languages),
>> like to include information about Manner in their verbs and put the
>> information about Path in particles or prepositional phrases and such.
>>
>> Other languages like Spanish (and other Romance languages), Arabic and
>> Basque, like to include information about Path in their verbs and express
>> the Manner information in any combination of a whole list of ways from
>> participles, to adjetives, to adverbs, to onomotopoeia.
>>
>> Both of these options have interesting features, but I was wondering if
>> any
>> of you have either experimented with encoding any of the other information
>> types in teh verbs of your conlangs, or if you have knowledge of natlangs
>> that do so.
>>
>
> I'm not clear on the difference between Ground and Path. Lindiga motion
> verbs express Manner with participles modifying the main verb, as in "sevo
> verevi" ("traverse crawling" meaning "crawl through"). The object of the
> verb "sevich" pretty much matches the description of an "entity or entities
> the Figure moves in relation to". But if you consider the Lindiga motion
> verbs as a group, you could say they're distinguished by the "course and/or
> trajectory of the Figure". "Sevich" means to go through or past, "tenich"
> means to go away, "nimich" means to arrive.
>



-- 
ra'aalalí 'aa! - [sirisaá! <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conlang>]

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