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CONLANG Home

CONLANG Home

CONLANG  November 2012, Week 2

CONLANG November 2012, Week 2

Subject:

Re: Gravgaln consonants -- romanization woes

From:

R A Brown <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

[log in to unmask]

Date:

Thu, 8 Nov 2012 09:03:29 +0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (117 lines)

On 07/11/2012 20:21, BPJ wrote:
> On 2012-11-07 19:35, Adam Walker wrote:
>> As for using bb, et alia, that could work since
>> geminates do not appear in this language. I will think
>> on it, but at first blush, I like it.
>
> Then why not follow the example of Welsh and use doubled
> consonants for fricatives,

Rather misleading representation of welsh IMHO.  True, the 
three doubled-consonant letters happen to represent 
fricative, i.e. _dd_ /ð/, _ll_ /ɬ/ and _ff_ /f/.

In the case of _ff_, the doubling is to show the voiceless 
version of the voiced fricative _f_ /v/.

> so that you can use _h_
> unambiguously for aspirates

But if you follow the example of Welsh, they would represent 
fricatives!

_ch_ /χ/, _ph_ /f/, _th_ /θ/

/f/ is spelled _ff_ if it never changes, but as _ph_ if it 
arise from an spirant mutation of /p/.

Before the orthography became standardized, some writers 
spelled /ð/ as _dh_ and /ɬ/ as _lh_.  (Indeed, I seen Welsh 
texts where /ð/ is written as _z_ and /θ/ as _ç_ )
=========================================================

On 07/11/2012 20:21, Adam Walker wrote:
 > Okay, this is where I currently stand:
 >
 > These stay the same.
 >
 >     /pʰ/ p
 >
 >> /tʰ/ t
 >> /ʈʰ/ t'
 >> /kʰ/ k
 >> /qʰ/ q
 >>
 >
 > These stay the same.
 >
 >
 >>
 >> /b/ b
 >> /d/ d
 >> /ɖ/ d'
 >> /g/ g
 >> /ɢ/ qg
 >>
 >
 > These will be romanized thusly:
 >
 >>
 >> /bʱ/ bb
 >> /dʱ/ dd
 >> /ɖʱ/ dd'
 >> /gʱ/ gg
 >> /ɢʱ/ qqg
 >>

This seems to me a better solution.

 >
 > the fricatives are ammended slightly:
 >
 >>
 >> /ɸ/ ph
 >> /β/ bh
 >> /f/ f
 >> /v/ v
 >> /θ/ th
 >> /ð/ dh
 >> /s/ s
 >> /z/ z
 >> /ʃ/ sh
 >> /ʒ/ zh
 >> /ʂ/ sh'  (or maybe s'h)
 >> /ʐ/ zh'  (or maybe z'h)
 >> /ç/ (maybe hx)
 >> /ʝ/  (maybe x)
 >> /x/ kh
 >> /ɣ/ gh
 >> /ħ/ hh
 >> /ʕ/ hg
 >> /h/ h

Wow! What a bunch. The use _h_ is IMO more in keeping with 
traditional Romanized spelling (including Welsh) and would work.

 >>
 >
 > Now I'll introduce the nasals:

[nasals, laterals, rhotic and approximants snipped - too
much for my brain to cope with after only one cup of
coffee!]

 > I *think* that's about the comlpete set (excpetiong the
 > affricates).

Aw! No clicks?    :)

-- 
Ray
==================================
http://www.carolandray.plus.com
==================================
Nid rhy hen neb i ddysgu.
There's none too old to learn.
[WELSH PROVERB]

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