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CONLANG  November 2012, Week 3

CONLANG November 2012, Week 3

Subject:

Re: French phonology (was: V Latin Sound Change)

From:

"J. 'Mach' Wust" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 17 Nov 2012 15:57:46 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (39 lines)

On Fri, 16 Nov 2012 11:40:10 +0100, Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets wrote:

>A phonemic distinction
>needn't happen in *actual* words to exist anyway. The idea that only those
>distinctions happening in extant vocabulary can be considered phonemic has
>always sounded preposterous to me.

Certainly. However, sequences like [wu], [ji] or [ɥy] appear to be extremely
marginal in French (insofar as they exist at all). I think the distinction
between core sounds of a language and faroff marginal sounds should be
accounted for in a phonological analysis. What makes marginality? More than
statistics (which are hard to get), I think it is the status of loan words
and of interjections. For instance, pronunciation dictionaries of German
usually include the sounds [θ], [ð], [ɑ̃], [õ], [œ̃], [ɛ̃]. These sounds are
not phonemes of German, but they occur in loanwords from English and French.

And even a very superficial internet research reveals that there are
reputable analysis of the sounds of French that take [w] [j] [ɥ] to be
instances of the phonemes /u/ /i/ /y/.

>> I think a case could be made for analyzing [wa] and [ɥi] as diphthongs
>> since they pattern like simple vowels, and not like CV combinations. Both
>> occur in simple morphemes after complex onsets such as [tʁ], e.g. _froid,
>> fruit_. This gives yet another possibility of analyzing the [lu.a]—[lwa]
>> difference without recurring to different /u/—/w/ phonemes: /lua/—/lu͡a/
>> (the latter should show up as _ua_ with the tie bar).
>>
>>
>I disagree. I just analyse those by saying that a complex onset can be of
>the form CCA.

There is ample room for different points of views in phonological analysis.
I prefer a phonological analysis that accounts for assymetries in the
distribution of sounds (why is CCwa more common than, say, CCɥa or CCwe?).

-- 
grüess
mach

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