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CONLANG  November 2012, Week 3

CONLANG November 2012, Week 3

Subject:

Re: A Two-Word dictionary

From:

Nikolay Ivankov <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 19 Nov 2012 10:43:26 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (67 lines)

On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 2:32 AM, Alex Fink <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> On Sun, 18 Nov 2012 16:14:44 -0800, Gary Shannon <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
> >On Sun, Nov 18, 2012 at 3:09 PM, Nikolay Ivankov <[log in to unmask]
> >wrote:
> >
> >> However, it would have been indeed a very good thing if someone could
> have
> >> composed such a compound dictionary, with examples from natlangs and
> >> conlangs. And not necessarily compounds, though.
> >
> >That is a very interesting idea. It could list words with examples of how
> >they are formed in other languages, like: [snip]
>
> The emphasis on _words_ -- on having English headwords as the indexing
> mechanism to such a book -- would IMO undercut much of the good such a book
> might do, by encouraging conlangers to make calques in the _semantic
> contrasts_ their language offers, even if some single words expand as
> compounds.


You are totally right, but that's not a problem at least for me. For in my
current dictionary, counting about a pair of dozens proto-roots, I already
have two distinct form for "move" (transitive vs. intransitive), and I
consider adding further words with similar but different meaning. Of course
if came this far with constructing an oddish conculture (surrounding flora
and fauna included), I don't want to miss a chance to miss a chance of
spicing the language its own exotic melange.



>  What would be a vèry good thing would be for someone to compose a
> dictionary of frames and semantic partitions and suchlike with exemplars
> from nat- & conlangs, so that if someone sets out to make a translation
> equivalent of some fraught word like "fair" (in the 'equitable' sense) or
> "game" or "responsibility" they are guided away from making a simple
> translation equivalent, and towards some way fitting their conlang of
> conceptualising the underlying semantic space and realising its members,
> with roots or derivations or compounds as appropriate.
>

To say more, I use etymological dictionaries just to avoid giving a
translation equivalent to the words like "fair" and "game". So I go back
"into the past" until I'm stuck at something more concrete: that a "game"
in whichever sense comes down to "community" to "help(?)"+"man", and
"fine" to "making beautiful". Inspired by the last example, I may consider
that one of the words for "good" in Janjarin may derive from the root for
"ochre" or even "(carving) knife".

I was thinking about a net: a word has links to its derivations and origins
(whenever compound of not) and to its translations to other languages, for
each of which we have the same thing. Alas! I won't be doing this, so I
need to cease these Manilov-style effusions right where they begin.

Wm. Annis' _Conlanger's Thesaurus_ <
> lingweenie.org/conlang/ConlangersThesaurus.pdf> aims towards a place a
> little like this, though of course it's still being developed (many of its
> entries yet consist of nothing but a headword).
>
> Alex
>


Kolya

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