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CONLANG  November 2012, Week 3

CONLANG November 2012, Week 3

Subject:

French phonology (was: V Latin Sound Change)

From:

R A Brown <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 16 Nov 2012 07:57:14 +0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (67 lines)

On 15/11/2012 23:19, Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets wrote:
> On 15 November 2012 23:33, Daniel Prohaska
> <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> Well, a native language coach taught me to say [ɥɪ].
>
>
> [ɥi] in general (which is useful for words like _lui_ and
> _huit_), or [ɥi] for _oui_? Well, in that last case that
> person didn't know what they were talking about. _oui_ is
> [wi], nothing more, nothing less. Saying [ɥi] will result
> in misunderstandings.

Of course it will.

[snip]

>> I would transcribe ‹Louis› as [lui] and ‹lui› as
>> [lyi].
>>
>
> Both are wrong, as French people make a strong
> distinction between the vowels /u/, /y/ and /i/, and the
> approximants /w/, /ɥ/ and /j/. Your transcriptions are
> only possible in French if those words were disyllabic
> ([lu.i] and [ly.i]), but they are not.

Indeed they are not.  There also seems to be confusion
between phonetic & phonemic transcriptions going on; tho in
this case AIUI the two coincide,

Anglophones have to be careful to realize that the _English_
pronunciation of _Louis_ is not the same as the French
pronunciation.

> Be careful, French doesn't have any true diphthongs. It
> used to (in fact, Old French was full of diphthongs and
> triphthongs!), but Modern French simplified them all.

Exactly!

> Anything that might sound like a diphthong in Modern
> French is actually a combination between an approximant
> and a vowel (which is why French people have a hard time
> learning to pronounce the various vowels of English
> correctly. They just aren't used to true diphthongs and
> tend to replace those with fake diphthongs using
> approximants, resulting in a characteristic accent).

	:)

Yes, having had contact with French speakers just over the
channel off and on for most of my adult life, having a
French daughter-in-law who hails from almost the center of
the Hexagone, and having two bilingual grandsons (one of
them called Louis), I concur with all that Christophe has
written above and in previous emails on this subject.

-- 
Ray
==================================
http://www.carolandray.plus.com
==================================
Nid rhy hen neb i ddysgu.
There's none too old to learn.
[WELSH PROVERB]

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