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AUXLANG Home

AUXLANG  November 2012, Week 4

AUXLANG November 2012, Week 4

Subject:

Re: [INTERLNG] cooperation between Interlingua and Interslavic communitity

From:

Jan van Steenbergen <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 23 Nov 2012 21:11:01 +0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (45 lines)

----- Original Message -----
From: Stephen Rice [log in to unmask]
 
> I admit I find the presentation of Interslavic hard to follow; I could do a quick edit to make it more accessible. 
 
I know. That is in part due to the way it emerged. Back in 2006, I spent a whole day writing down all my ideas about what Slovianski should look like on a user page at Langmaker.com. It crystallised into "Slovianski-N". For personal reasons, I've been away from most of my Internet activity from later in 2006 till 2008. When I came back, Langmaker.com was gone, and because I hate it when my work it lost, I decided to transform the whole thing into a web page, updated with recent developments. Probably because this was the only Slovianski website that was left, or at least the most complete one, gradually this became the basis of "Slovianski", while other versions were abandoned and forgotten. 
 
Slovianski itself underwent thorough changes as well.
 
First of all, initial Slovianski was much more auxlangy than it became after 2010. When the Slovianski project started, the only Slavic-based auxlang available was Slovio (not to mention a few others that were mere sketches), and initially, it was intended to be a more naturalistic alternative to it. Yet, simplicity still played an important role. Once the language had acquired a few dozens of users, we quickly found out by experience that simplicity wasn't much of an issue at all, and that naturality was considered much more important a feature by most of us. Even those who initially opposed grammatical cases and exceptions and the like eventually got used to them. And so simplifications that gave unnatural forms gradually fell out of use.
 
The second thing is that in, say, February 2010, there were no less than three active Interslavic projects going on: Slovianski, Slovioski and Novoslovienskij. Slovioski was originally meant to become a compromise language between Slovio and Slovianski (somebody called it "a Slavic Ido"), but gradually developed into something nearly identical to Slovianski, while Novoslovienskij appeared out of nowhere as a contemporary form of Old Church Slavonic. From that moment onwards I have abandoned Slovianski as a conlang in its own right, and been trying more and more to build a bridge between these projects instead. Thus, I developed Naučny Medžuslovjanski (Scientific Interslavic), an orthography with lots of diacritics to cover differences between both natural and artificial Slavic languages. We also introduced all kinds of flexibility and flavourisation.
 
And thirdly, the more I studied Slavic interlinguistics, the more I came to the conclusion that Slovianski was, in fact, nothing new at all. Back in 2006, there was only Slovio and a few underdeveloped sketches to compare it to, but thanks to Google Books and other sources I was able to learn a lot more about older projects as well (Križanić 1666, Herkeľ 1826, Raič 1853, Bambas 1861, Majar-Ziljski 1865, Hošek 1907, Podmele 1954-58, Pilat 2001 and others). One thing I found out that practically every single feature of Slovianski had already been done long before - and the very few things that hadn't actually were its biggest weaknesses. I also came to realise how remarkably similar all these projects were, to such a degree that it is pretty obvious that all of them are merely versions of the same language. Now, I have come to understand that what Wikipedia writes ("Slovianski [...] is a Slavic interlanguage, created in 2006 by a group of language
 creators from different countries") is nonsense. In fact, it would be far more accurate to write: "Interslavic is a Slavic interlanguage, first published in 1666 by Juraj Križanić under the name [...] and currently being developed under the names Slovianski and Neoslavonic."
 
Anyway, if there are problems in the description on my pages, it is because they originated as a mere presentation of my own ideas to other members of the project. I have not yet had the occasion to update every part of the site to make it more consistent with recent developments. Unfortunately, I work about 80 hours a week and I also have a family, so my time to work on Interslavic unfortunately is limited. But I hope to improve the whole thing anyway!
 
 
> I can't help wondering what an inter-Slavic auxlang on Interlingua principles would look like: you could still have cases, but there would be one declension (with perhaps a single variation for hard/soft) and one conjugation. 
 
Well, we have done lots of experiments with that (including working with one declension and/or two or three cases instead of six or seven). Unfortunately, that won't work in Slavic. The Romance languages are much easier to deal with, because cases have disappeared or at least eroded in all them, so the only real choice is to take -s for the plural as in Western Romance or -i for the plural as in Central/Eastern Romance. However, all Slavic languages have gender and adjectives that follow suit, and all but Bulgarian and Macedonian have cases. Besides, the case system in the remaining Slavic languages is so very similar that there is simply no NEED for not having them. And the same goes also for conjugation.
 
Slovianski has managed to have one conjugation only (a solution quite similar to De Wahl's rule), which generates a few unnatural forms, but nothing unacceptable. Yet, this system didn't gain much popularity, and therefore I'm inclined to believe that two (very similar, but not identical) conjugations are the minimum. However, one declension is really impossible. To keep ourselves from creating a monster, four declensions are the absolute minimum. Most Interslavic projects have more of them; Novosloviensky IIRC has nine.
 
But for beginners and casually interested non-Slavs etc., I have created a very simplified form, called "Slovianto": http://steen.free.fr/interslavic/slovianto.html. This one is in fact pretty similar to Interlingua in its setup. 
 
BTW, very early Slovianski didn't have conjugation and only used the infinitive. However, this looks pretty bad and comes across as some sort of baby-language, definitely not suitable for writing a serious article or something.
 
> My first question about learning an auxlang usually involves practical use:
> what could I at least read in it? So I may try learning it. Then any criticisms I have will be better informed, anyway.

Oh, there's lots of stuff. Except for Izviestija.info, there are several other places and sites. There are also two Facebook groups where Interslavic is the primary language of communication.

> From what the tutorial says, "dělaješ" is the more widespread form.
 
Which tutorial? Anyway, whether this is true or not depends pretty much on how you count. The biggest problem in Interslavic is the fact that nearly 50% of all Slavs have Russian as their native language, and another 15-20% speak it fluently as a second language. Not surprising therefore that Russian Pan-Slavists have traditionally opted for Russian as The Interslavic Language. 
 
If you count languages, you get a different picture. This longer form exists only in East Slavic nowadays. All West and South Slavic languages have the short form "dělaš". On thing that distinguishes Slovianski from other projects is that it has objective design criteria, based on the idea of equal treatment for all three (or six) subbranches. 
 
Practically, it doesn't matter much; both forms are perfectly understandable for the other side.
 
Cheers,
Jan

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October 2001, Week 1
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April 2001, Week 1
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March 2001, Week 1
February 2001, Week 4
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February 2001, Week 2
February 2001, Week 1
January 2001, Week 5
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January 2001, Week 3
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January 2001, Week 1
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December 2000, Week 3
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February 2000, Week 1
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December 1999, Week 5
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December 1998, Week 5
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