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CONLANG  December 2012, Week 1

CONLANG December 2012, Week 1

Subject:

Re: OT: YAEPT–"T"-ing Off

From:

Brian Woodward <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 5 Dec 2012 17:42:09 -0600

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (56 lines)

On Dec 5, 2012, at 17:37, Matthew Boutilier <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> 'whence', traditionally at least, doesn't "require" a preposition any more
> than you'd say 'from hence' or 'to thither.' but it's become popular to
> reinforce the 'from'-ness of whence (makes me think of Tolkien, and the
> fate of the One Ring), which on its own sounds pretty archaic to
> speakers/listeners/readers, so i guess the redundancy may help to explain
> it.

I was actually watching The Fellowship of the Ring which is (from) whence I got the reminder to ask about it.

> 
> and yeah, this sort of 'excrescent T' is common in a lot of english
> dialects and crops up in a lot of ways. i know a lot of American
> "Southerners" (i am from the north(east) and can't really distinguish their
> dialects further than that) who will say "oncet" (as it's usually spelled;
> pronounced "wunst") for "once".
> 
> probably the same phenomenon as "amid[st]" and "among[st]" and
> "while/whilst". it sort of just crops up without a good etymology, though
> the -st is probably an analogy from forms that ended in genitive -es that
> got the excrescent T (like OE *ongean* and *ongeanes*, both "again" and
> "against" depending on context).
> 
> personally i think this kind of intrusive final -t (much like initial *s
> mobile* in Proto Indo European and the change from -s to -st of the German *
> du*-form ending) comes from frequent juxtaposition of such a word ending in
> -s with a word beginning with a dental, which (what with all the TH- words)
> occurs frequently in English. so maybe a lot of things like* across the
> pond *developed dialectically into *acrost the pond*, and this pattern
> became more widespread. makes enough sense, right?

Makes sense to me. But then I've not studied any diachronic linguistics.

Thanks!

Brian

> 
> matt
> 
> 
> On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 5:13 PM, Brian Woodward <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> 
>> First I have a quick question before I get to my actual question. The word
>> whence; when used does it require the use of the word from. E.g. "…whence
>> it came" or "…from whence it came"?
>> 
>> Okay, on to my actual question. Has anyone noticed in colloquial English
>> speech (Southern American) the addition of a *t* at the end of certain
>> words? E.g. Close(t)est and across(t). I've noticed that my wife along with
>> several other "Southerners" do this and I can't seem rationalize it in any
>> way. Might any of you have heard this and have some explanation?
>> 
>> Brian

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