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CONLANG  December 2012, Week 1

CONLANG December 2012, Week 1

Subject:

Re: Linguistics resources

From:

Adam Walker <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 2 Dec 2012 11:33:06 -0600

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (185 lines)

I would advise against that. The Deaf normally find that rather
offensive. Deaf people do not use braille. Nichole could be stepping
into a hornet's nest if she asks someone at Gallaudet about braille
resources.

Adam

On 12/2/12, Roger Mills <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Hello NIcole-- You might inquire of these people--
> http://www.gallaudet.edu/Linguistics/Faculty_-_Staff.html about resources
> available in Braille or voice recordings. I'm thinking in particular of H.
> A. Gleason's Introduction to Descriptive Linguistics, first published in
> 1955 and so a little out of date by modern standards, but it's still the
> best basic introduction to the field that I know of. Also, on the Gallaudet
> home page, if you search for "Linguistics" you'll see that they have
> available a handbook, though I don't know in what format.
>
> There's certainly no need for you to dive immediately into Chomsky and later
> writers!! Some of that stuff is completely over my head, and I have a PhD in
> the field...(smiley).
>
> Roger Mills
>
>
>
> --- On Sun, 12/2/12, Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
> From: Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: a 4 tense system
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Date: Sunday, December 2, 2012, 2:32 AM
>
> What do the numbers mean? I'm confused.
>
> I just revised my tense list. I'll look up tense systems, and post something
>
> to the list. It will also go in the appendix.
>
> Why is the system called November 19? Since I'm working on a description of
>
> my Conlang, do you have a description of the language, with historical info,
>
> and vocabulary with translated sentences?
>
>
> Emerging poet
> Pen Name Mellissa Green
> Budding novelist
> tweet me
>
>
>
> GreenNovelist
>
> blog
>
>
> www.theworldofyemora.wordpress.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "neo gu" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Sunday, December 02, 2012 1:48 AM
> Subject: Re: a 4 tense system
>
>
> On Sat, 1 Dec 2012 21:52:22 -0800, Garth Wallace <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>>On Sat, Dec 1, 2012 at 6:46 PM, Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews
>><[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>> Hi, I know I need to create a tense system. I don't understand the first
>>> tense.
>>
>>The tense system that neo gu is descibing is a little unusual. The
>>aorist is a kind of past tense.
>>
>>> Also, did my screen reader read corectly? It said November 19. Since
>>> that tense refers to time, does that mean there are other tenses?
>>
>>I'm pretty sure that "Nov19" is the name of neo gu's project. Probably
>>some sort of placeholder name.
>>
>>> Also,
>>> what's the limit on tense numbering?
>>
>>If you mean how many tenses a language can have, I'm not sure there's
>>any real limit. If you're referring to how he assigned numbers to his
>>tenses, like saying that the "present tense" is #3, that just seems to
>>be something neo gu has done because he thinks the "traditional" names
>>could be misleading.
>>
>>> I'm thinking a three-tense system,
>>> current, previous, and post. Current:
>>> She is eating.
>>> Previous:
>>> She was eating.
>>> Post:
>>> She ate. I'm not sure what do do about future tenses. She will be
>>> eating.
>>
>>You're actually talking about both tense and aspect there. They're
>>frequently found together, and they both have to do with time. Here's
>>how I'd describe your system:
>>
>>"She is eating." We would say that is present tense, progressive (or
>>imperfective) aspect.
>>
>>"She was eating." We would call that past tense, progressive or
>>imperfective aspect.
>>
>>"She ate." We would call that past tense, perfective aspect. English
>>grammarians call this the "simple past" or preterite.
>>
>>Tense proper has to do with when the action described by the verb
>>takes place. There are lots of different tense systems in natural
>>languages. One very simple one is past/nonpast: verbs inflect only for
>>whether the action happened in the past or not: English actually has
>>this system (there is no "future tense" inflection of verbs, just a
>>construction using the modal verb "will", which is optional). There
>>are also, IIRC, languages with future/nonfuture systems, where the
>>past and present are lumped together (because they can be definitively
>>known), while the future is set apart (because any statement about the
>>future can only be speculation). Or past/present/future systems, where
>>verbs have distinct inflections for each. Some languages even divide
>>up "past" or "future", so verbs may inflect differently for recent
>>past and distant past. There are more too. And some languages don't
>>have tense at all. There are lots of options.
>>
>>Aspect is harder to describe. It has to do with how you're looking at
>>the action in time. The most basic division is between the perfective
>>(looking at a single action as a complete unit, as in "She ate cake.")
>>and the imperfective (looking at an ongoing action from inside, as in
>>"She was eating cake."). The imperfective can be further divided: the
>>progressive (a single ongoing action), the iterative (repeating an
>>action, "She ate cake after cake"), and the habitual (a state of
>>occasionally performing an action, "She ate cake often") are all
>>examples of imperfective aspects. Then there is the perfect, which
>>describes the state that results from an action: English uses "have"
>>for this ("She has eaten the cake."). There are loads more. They
>>sometimes get merged in funny ways, too. For example, in English we
>>can express habitual aspect with the same verb form as the perfective
>>("She ate cake" can mean that she ate it once in the past, or that
>>eating cake is something she used to do). Latin used the same verb
>>form for the perfective and the perfect, which is why the names of
>>those aspects are confusingly similar.
>>
>>So neo gu's tense/aspect system breaks down like this:
>>
>>(1) expresses a past action, whether complete or ongoing. In other
>>words, it's a simple past tense, unmarked for aspect.
>>(2) expresses a present state resulting from a past action. It's a
>>present perfect.
>>(3) expresses a present action, whether complete or ongoing. It's a
>>simple present tense, unmarked for aspect.
>>(4) expresses a future action, whether complere or ongoing. It's a
>>simple future, unmarked for aspect.
>
> Good explanations, except that complete presents (3) probably don't occur, I
>
> think.
>
>>These are not odd distinctions to make. What's unusual about neo gu's
>>system is that either the present perfect or the simple present may be
>>"off limits" depending on the verb. I'm not sure I understand the
>>conditions, though.
>
> It depends not on the verb so much, but on what aspect is intended (although
>
> there are verbs such as "see" that I'm not sure about). Where there's no
> resulting state (such as when the action's incomplete), the perfect can't be
>
> used and where there's no implied transition into the state, the present
> can't be used. For example:
>
> "It is hot" expresses only the state of being hot, not how it got there, so
>
> (2) is used, not (3).
> In "He is looking for a car", the resulting state isn't known, so (3) is
> used, not (2).
>
> Is that clearer?
>

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April 2006, Week 4
April 2006, Week 3
April 2006, Week 2
April 2006, Week 1
March 2006, Week 5
March 2006, Week 4
March 2006, Week 3
March 2006, Week 2
March 2006, Week 1
February 2006, Week 4
February 2006, Week 3
February 2006, Week 2
February 2006, Week 1
January 2006, Week 5
January 2006, Week 4
January 2006, Week 3
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January 2006, Week 1
December 2005, Week 5
December 2005, Week 4
December 2005, Week 3
December 2005, Week 2
December 2005, Week 1
November 2005, Week 5
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November 2005, Week 3
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November 2005, Week 1
October 2005, Week 5
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October 2005, Week 2
October 2005, Week 1
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April 2005, Week 5
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April 2005, Week 1
March 2005, Week 5
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January 2005, Week 1
December 2004, Week 5
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December 2004, Week 3
December 2004, Week 2
December 2004, Week 1
November 2004, Week 5
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November 2004, Week 3
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October 2004, Week 4
October 2004, Week 3
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October 2004, Week 1
September 2004, Week 5
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April 2004, Week 5
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February 2004, Week 1
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January 2004, Week 2
January 2004, Week 1
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December 2003, Week 3
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December 2003, Week 1
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November 2003, Week 3
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October 2003, Week 3
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July 2003, Week 3
July 2003, Week 2
July 2003, Week 1
June 2003, Week 5
June 2003, Week 4
June 2003, Week 3
June 2003, Week 2
June 2003, Week 1
May 2003, Week 5
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May 2003, Week 1
April 2003, Week 5
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April 2003, Week 3
April 2003, Week 2
April 2003, Week 1
March 2003, Week 5
March 2003, Week 4
March 2003, Week 3
March 2003, Week 2
March 2003, Week 1
February 2003, Week 4
February 2003, Week 3
February 2003, Week 2
February 2003, Week 1
January 2003, Week 5
January 2003, Week 4
January 2003, Week 3
January 2003, Week 2
January 2003, Week 1
December 2002, Week 5
December 2002, Week 4
December 2002, Week 3
December 2002, Week 2
December 2002, Week 1
November 2002, Week 5
November 2002, Week 4
November 2002, Week 3
November 2002, Week 2
November 2002, Week 1
October 2002, Week 5
October 2002, Week 4
October 2002, Week 3
October 2002, Week 2
October 2002, Week 1
September 2002, Week 5
September 2002, Week 4
September 2002, Week 3
September 2002, Week 2
September 2002, Week 1
August 2002, Week 5
August 2002, Week 4
August 2002, Week 3
August 2002, Week 2
August 2002, Week 1
July 2002, Week 5
July 2002, Week 4
July 2002, Week 3
July 2002, Week 2
July 2002, Week 1
June 2002, Week 5
June 2002, Week 4
June 2002, Week 3
June 2002, Week 2
June 2002, Week 1
May 2002, Week 5
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May 2002, Week 3
May 2002, Week 2
May 2002, Week 1
April 2002, Week 5
April 2002, Week 4
April 2002, Week 3
April 2002, Week 2
April 2002, Week 1
March 2002, Week 5
March 2002, Week 4
March 2002, Week 3
March 2002, Week 2
March 2002, Week 1
February 2002, Week 4
February 2002, Week 3
February 2002, Week 2
February 2002, Week 1
January 2002, Week 5
January 2002, Week 4
January 2002, Week 3
January 2002, Week 2
January 2002, Week 1
December 2001, Week 5
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December 2001, Week 3
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December 2001, Week 1
November 2001, Week 5
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November 2001, Week 1
October 2001, Week 5
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October 2001, Week 3
October 2001, Week 2
October 2001, Week 1
September 2001, Week 5
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September 2001, Week 3
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September 2001, Week 1
August 2001, Week 5
August 2001, Week 4
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July 2001, Week 1
June 2001, Week 5
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June 2001, Week 1
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May 2001, Week 2
May 2001, Week 1
April 2001, Week 5
April 2001, Week 4
April 2001, Week 3
April 2001, Week 2
April 2001, Week 1
March 2001, Week 5
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March 2001, Week 3
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January 2001, Week 5
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January 2001, Week 3
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May 2000, Week 1
April 2000, Week 5
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April 2000, Week 1
March 2000, Week 5
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March 2000, Week 1
February 2000, Week 5
February 2000, Week 4
February 2000, Week 3
February 2000, Week 2
February 2000, Week 1
January 2000, Week 5
January 2000, Week 4
January 2000, Week 3
January 2000, Week 2
January 2000, Week 1
December 1999, Week 5
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December 1999, Week 3
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December 1999, Week 1
November 1999, Week 5
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November 1999, Week 3
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November 1999, Week 1
October 1999, Week 5
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October 1999, Week 1
September 1999, Week 5
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July 1999, Week 5
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June 1999, Week 5
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April 1999, Week 5
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April 1999, Week 1
March 1999, Week 5
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March 1999, Week 1
February 1999, Week 5
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February 1999, Week 1
January 1999, Week 5
January 1999, Week 4
January 1999, Week 3
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January 1999, Week 1
December 1998, Week 5
December 1998, Week 4
December 1998, Week 3
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November 1998, Week 3
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November 1998, Week 1
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