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CONLANG  December 2012, Week 1

CONLANG December 2012, Week 1

Subject:

Re: Paid contractor vs Artistic collaborator and other nonsense (was Re: Hello Luv!)

From:

Matthew Merlo <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 6 Dec 2012 04:06:06 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (32 lines)

>On Dec 5, 2012, at 10:58 PM, Matthew Merlo <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

>> And I have been "politely" insulted by your president.

>Wait, wait, let me make something clear. I am the president of the LCS, but the Conlang-L is something completely >separate from and independent of the LCS. I in no way represent anyone on the Conlang-L or the list generally, and I >participate here on the list as an individual. Furthermore, my opinions are my own, unless I state explicitly that I'm >speaking of the LCS. I wasn't in my previous message, and am not now.
>
>I'm sorry about the way I worded my last message. In threads like this, there's the potential for one's dander to get >up, and it's easy to respond in a way that one oughtn't. Every so often you respond the way you're feeling, and, >honestly, it's nice to be called out on it so that you can be reminded (yet again) that there's no call for being impolite.
>
>So being more direct: In my opinion your job is too much work for too little pay, and I would urge conlangers not to do > it. I do wish you luck with your project, though. The more novels, movies, shows, etc. that feature conlang material, >the better. Hopefully it will lead to more interest in conlanging in general,  which will then lead to more paid conlang >work in the future for more conlangers.

You are the person I was referring to. I don't commit people's name to memory and almost never look at a name unless they say something that I think is noteworthy. The insulting post was not the last, but the last in the Hello reply chain.

You opinions may be your own and that is how I take them always (I've been a head moderator on forums) and I have always stood by when in official capacity to always act fairly and by the rules even to myself, but what I say and how much i come to despise someone holds no baring on how I moderate. This is almost never a position that moderators take. they say they do, but don't. However, when you are a head moderator or admin or founder or a president you are the person people look at and see you as a representative of that culture. I'm blunt, honest, and try to stay on point, but not against tangents and so people tend to not like what I have to say and that's generally a bad face to be leader of anything and I tend to try to stay away from leadership positions because even though I know how make things work well there isn't really a point if noone ever does what you tell them or it drives people away. 

Now on to your last paragraph...

Yes what I want is a lot of work. There is no way I would ever be able to pay for it if we go by any measure of what anyone would consider fair and I wouldn't pay for it for all the reasons I pointed out, but I am also the type of person that if I had the money I'm the type of person that would make sure everyone that works with me is taken care of. I know that is hard to believe but it is true. 

That is me, but since I don't think that this is at all helpful for me in the least and it is unlikely any of you will actually help me. 

I have to point some things out...
Firstly, I understand you want to work on your own projects and what not, but consider some things...
If your intentions are in no way commercial or even if they are but you only want to work on conlanging and not necessarily world build. What's the harm of working with someone for free? If you just want to work on conlanging I'm sorry to say but it's not in huge demand as far as I know and as such it's not lucrative unless you associate with someone you're not going to make a lot of money more than likely. It's just a luck of a draw. If it's not me it's just some other schmuck. If you're in either position there's no contract and if you don't like me or my ideas you can just walk away, call me names, whatever... and more than likely you'll know pretty quickly. If for some reason things progress for some time and then you get angry and don't want to work with me any more then we can come to some agreement then. Again trust me when I say this, I am far more amenable than most people are and more than likely if you want to take all your work I'll go "I need this part for this reason, do you have a problem with that?" we'll discuss that and then I'll restart and rebuild. How do you know that is what I'll do or how can I be so certain that's what I'll do. We don't. You may not trust me and we may never know but that's how it is. Can't change that. At best you'll get more than you'd have gotten otherwise... at worst you'll have done pretty much the same thing you'd have done now.

2ndly The logic that David is presenting is wrong. Don't work for free. Don't promote yourselves. Rely on other people coming to you to formulate arcane scripts that noone will tell the difference between language which takes skill and feeds back into the conlanging community and cypher which most people don't think is any different than what you're doing but doesnt feed back in and doesn't take much skill. You're essentially saying "I'm going to play in my own world and people will come pay me to play in their world and praise me for my ability to levitate" even though they can't tell the difference between your levitation and someone who is just doing an illusion.

There are businesses and art that can get lucky and have that happen to them, but those are few and rare. Most companies and artists go, "here's free stuff! Talk about me! Aren't I amazing?! Why yes I can do that for you but my time is booked up... oh you want to give me money? This guy over here wants to give me money too though... Oh you want to give me more than him? OK!" It's a fundamental business concept.

See, the fact is, David, you are right on the second part, that having real conlang in more places is a great way to promote what you are doing, but the second part is wrong because it doesn't allow for real conlang to be in all those places and that is part of the reason for the artists having a range of prices rather than a single standard rate, but it does promote promote ciphers which most can't tell the difference between because for every person you turn down is a missed opportunity to promote your work and a promotion of ciphers.

Of course you can just say I'm a jerk and I'm untrustworthy and I'm disrespectful or I'm just not your horse. Valid reasons to some degree. It just means that I'm left with a negative opinion of your community, I'm a missed opportunity, and in my attempts I might even make the general conlang community look bad by my low quality work in the area or i might bone up and turn it around and be awesome in the area and in which case if i was vindictive it would lead to me talking negatively about your community and so you get a negative affect. I'm not saying I would do that if what my plans do work out. More than likely I'll forget, but I'm not everyone. That's a good thing in my book too ^.^

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