On Sun, Dec 16, 2012 at 9:53 PM, Melroch <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Do _r, l_ both denote /R\/? If yes I'd definitely make /B\/ a phoneme and
> denote it with _r_!
Sorry, I wasn't able to understand the notation, for I'm not that good at
SAMPA. Did You mean epiglottal thrill by /RV and bilabial thrill by /BV? If
this is the case, then my explanation is following.
The aim was to create a language with as little number of consonants that
would be as exotic as possible. So I've ended up with just 2: [?] and
[O\_v]. The symbols r, n, h and d (z in previous versions) were thought to
modify the surrounding vowels. In particular, _r_ should be the sign
denoting the strident phonation.
As I've understood that I need a protolang to construct words, I came up
with an idea of a language with more consonants, that have dissipated
within time. Thus, it seems to me, that, the strident phonantion should
result as a dissipation of some uvular/glottal thrill. Now,
1) I'd like to keep track of notation from proto to modern Yanjarin
2) Since it's a common project, I need my collaborators to be able to read
what I write in Yanyarin, at least in some approximation.
3) Yanya are, despite their name, are more "orkish/Dothraki" in appearance.
Thus, I'd prefer to keep _r_ rather than _l_, especially since all the
b-sounds will in the end dissipate to u/nasalization. _Yanyarin_ in the end
sounds more, you know, agressive than _yanyalin.
> Den söndagen den 16:e december 2012 skrev Nikolay Ivankov:
> > Following the advises of of Alex Fink, I've revisited the phonology of
> > Proto-Yanyarin. As before, the collection of consonants that the speakers
> > of Yanyarin and can pronounce is limited almost entirely to labial to
> > labio-dental and from uvular to glottal. I have moved the existing sounds
> > more towards the glottis, so that the sound inventory looks more suited
> > a "species with a weak tongue that always sing". The orthography was also
> > changed, mostly for the sake of eughraphy.
> > The chart includes:
> > m n
> > b g q '/?
> > w d j x h
> > s l r
> > Here
> > m ~ [m]; n~[ŋ]; b~ [b]/[ʙ], g~[ɢ], q ~ [ʡ], '/? ~ [ʔ], w ~ [β], d ~ [ð],
> > ~ [ʁ̞]/[ʕ̞], x ~ [ʢ̞], s=?, h ~ [ɦ], l ~ [ʀ]/[я], r ~[я]/[glottal thrill]
> > I don't know the precise value for ⟨s⟩ by now. The sound depicted by this
> > letter would not exist in "modern" Yanyarin, and in some point ⟨s⟩ has to
> > transform into ⟨r⟩ and ⟨d⟩. The voiced glottal thrill is one of the
> > nonhuman features of the speakers of Yanya.
> > In Proto- and modern Yanyarin there are 8 vowels:
> > i,y v,u
> > e,ø
> > a,o
> > The main difference of vowel chart form to normal one is that closedness
> > the vowels is replaced by pharingealization. This is why I'm not able to
> > write this chart in the IPA right away. It is worth saying, however, that
> > in this notation v ~ [ɨ].
> > Finally, I'd like to have schwa, "schwi" and "schwo" sounds on several
> > stages of Old Yanyarin and Middle. I haven't decided on the signs for
> > but presumably ⟨z⟩ and ⟨c⟩ would be used for two such sounds. However,
> > maybe it's better to use IPA for clearness, since this sounds won't be in
> > use in modern Yanyarin.
> > Thanks for reading! Any suggestions? What am I missing? And thanks again!
> > Kolya