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CONLANG  December 2012, Week 3

CONLANG December 2012, Week 3

Subject:

Re: Passive verb: inflection or modifier particle?

From:

Leonardo Castro <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 17 Dec 2012 17:47:19 -0200

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (82 lines)

2012/12/17 Padraic Brown <[log in to unmask]>:
> --- On Mon, 12/17/12, Leonardo Castro <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> >> ....BTW, does any natlang have some kind of "gemination for emphasis"?
>>
>> > Sure. English does it, to some extent:
>>
>> > the word "little" I'd pronounce as [lIdl] (hope I used
>> > the right brackets!);
>> > but for emphasis, [lIt_tl] with heavier stress on both
>> > syllables, but what's
>>
>> BTW, "little" as pronounced by most Americans sound as
>> [li4@l] to my ears.
>
> Interesting. Dunno what [4] is, but I've never heard [i] for the root
> vowel. Leastways among native speakers. Among ESL speakers, sure.

Sorry, my focus was not on the [i], but on the [@]. I'd better have
written [lI4@l], but the capita "i" is too similar to minuscule "L".
In X-SAMPA, [4] is the alveolar flap, just like how the single "r" is
pronounced in Spanish.

---

2012/12/17 Roger Mills <[log in to unmask]>:
> --- On Mon, 12/17/12, Leonardo Castro <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Besides, most of the time, one can infer by semantic limitations if
> the verb is in active or passive form. But there are some verbs, such
> as "to be larger than" that would possibly cause some confusion if
> it's not clear what is larger than what.
> ==========================================
>
> Not necessarily, if there's context "than" can be implied/unneeded. How about:
>
> "I think John is larger than Henry"
> Someone replies: "No, John is larger"  [than implied]
>
> or (pointing to two objects)
> "Which one is larger?"
> Reply: "the blue one is larger"
>
> I encountered a problem in Kash, when "than" is followed by a complete sentence:
>
> Normal: John is fatter than Henry.
> with sentence: John is fatter (now) than the last time I saw him.

My original scheme would be like this:

John muake Henry. = John is larger than Henry.
Henry muako John. = Henry is smaller than John.

So, in a written text, if the letter <e> was misread as <o>, it would
be a problem.

I imagine two solutions for this problem:

* optionally doubling <e> and <o>:

John muakee Henry.
Henry muakoo John.

* prohibiting the passive form of this verb (rigorously, "muako" would
be the passive form of "to be larger than") and using the verb "to be
smaller than" instead:

John muake Henry.
Henry miene John.


---

2012/12/17 Charles W Brickner <[log in to unmask]>:
> In Senjecas many words are derived from a basic verb.  In this case, from
> the verb 'sma', to liken, to compare, are derived the postposition 'sma',
> meaning compared to, beside, like.  The above sentence would then read: John
> Henry sma fatter is.

In my conlang, I think that something similar could work using two verbs:

{John} {to be fat} {compared to} {Henry}

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December 1998, Week 5
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