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CONLANG Home

CONLANG  December 2012, Week 3

CONLANG December 2012, Week 3

Subject:

Re: contrafactual morphosyntax

From:

Puey McCleary <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 21 Dec 2012 22:18:31 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (290 lines)

                Conditionals are funny little things.  Some classical
conlangs seem to get along fine without having a specific way to express
contrafactual clauses, though I may be wrong.  Others like to throw in an
extra mood or two.

                Personally, I’m still traumatized by conditions from Greek
and Latin.  All those spindly protases and entangled apodoses still haunt
my nightmares.



                Many of us are probably familiar with the Us-mood in
Esperanto:



*Se mi povus, mi irus.*

*If I could, I would go.*



*Se mi estus vi, mi irus.*

*If I were you, I’d go.*



                Looking at “A hand-book of Volapük” I’ve come across these
sentences:



*If äbinob-la liegik, äbinoböv givik.*

*If I were rich I would be generous.*



*Ibinomöv givik, if ibinom-la liegik.*

*He would have been generous if he had been rich.*



*If stom binonöv koldikum, ba nifosöv.*

*If only the weather were colder, perhaps it would snow.*


*If ikömomöv, agivoböv ome givoti.*

*If he had come, I would have given him a present.*



                Volapük has its own conditional mood, I suppose.



                In aUI the word for “if” is Qg, one of the few words with
‘Q’ if I remember right.  I’d have to look through the book to find an
example, but I’m not sure that aUI distinguishes unreal conditions from
real conditions.



                I’m not entirely sure how conditions work in the languages
of Middle-earth.  I know that “if” is “si” in Nevbosh, since this poem has
survived to us.



*Dar fys ma vel gom co palt 'hoc
pys go iskili far maino woc?
Pro si go fys do roc de
Do cat ym maino bocte
De volt fac soc ma taimful gyróc!'*

*"There was an old man who said 'how*

*Can I possibly carry my cow?*

*For if I was to ask it*

*To get in my pocket*

*It would make such a fearful row."*



                A quick search on the Quettaparma Quenyallo wordlist on
Ardalambion reveals some possible words for “if” in Quenya.



##

                *cé* *("k")*, also *ce* *(“k”)* “may be” *(VT49:19, 27)*,
particle indicating uncertainty (VT42:34; *ce* in Bill Welden's note is a
misspelling, VT44:38, but the short form *ce* does occur in other texts,
cf. VT49:18-19). In VT42, Welden wrote that Tolkien altered *ké* to *kwí*(or
*kwíta*, q.v.), but Welden later noted that "it does not follow that
because the form was changed in another sentence it would necessarily have
been corrected in the examples cited" (VT44:38). So *cé*/*ké* may still be
a conceptually valid form. (The forms in *kw*- rather than *qu*- seem
abnormal for Quenya, at least as far as spelling is concerned.) In another
conceptual phase, *cé* was also used = “if” *(VT49:19)*, but this
conjunction appears as *qui* elsewhere. Examples of *cé*, *ce *meaning “if”
(said to be “usually [used] with aorist”) include *cé mo quetë ulca* *(“k”,
“q”)* *”if one speaks evil”, *cé tulis, nauvan tanomë* *(“k”)* *”if (s)he
comes, I will be there” *(VT49:19)*, *cé mo*… *“if one…”, *ce
formenna**“if northwards”
*(VT49:26)*

                *cenai* *(“k”) conj.* “if it be that” *(VT49:19)*. This
word presupposes *ce* = “if”; other sources rather make *qui* the word for
“if”, whereas *ce* or *cé* is used = “maybe”.

                *cenasit*, *canasta* *(“k”)* *adv. *“if it be so, may be,
perhaps” *(VT49:19)*. Compare *cenai*.

*mai* (2) *conj.* "if" *(PE14:59 cf. VT49:20; possibly obsoleted by #1
above; for “if”, Tolkien later used qui)*

*qui* *conj.* “if” *(VT49:19)*

##



                I haven’t been able to find any conditions in Láadan,
though there are these entries in the dictionary:



*bre… ébre
*if … then

*rilrili
*hypothetical, would, might, let's suppose (Time Auxiliary)

*wo
*imagined or invented by speaker, hypothetical, imagined or invented by X,
hypothetical (evidence morpheme)



                I would imagine, therefore that Láadan could express
contrary to fact conditions, though I do not know for certain.



                Klingon conditionals just seem to make use of the level
nine suffix –chugh.  I don’t think it has a specific way to express
contrafactual conditions, though I suppose one could use a word like chaq
“perhaps,” to do so.  Here’s a list of conditions that I’ve been able to
find, but note that are not always translated as conditions in English:



*bIjatlhHa'chugh qaHoH.*

*If you say the wrong thing, I will kill you.*



*qaHoH bIjatlhHa'chugh.*

*I will kill you, if you say the wrong thing.*



*pujwI' HIvlu'chugh quvbe'lu'.*

*There is no honor in attacking the weak.*



*bIlujlaHbe'chugh bIQaplaHbe'.*

*If you cannot fail, you cannot succeed.*



*bItuHlaHbe'chugh bIquvlaHbe'.*

*If you cannot be shamed, you cannot be honored.*



*Heghlu'DI' mobbe'lu'chugh QaQpu' Hegh wanI'.*

*Death is an experience best shared.*



*'etlh QorghHa'lu'chugh ragh 'etlh nIvqu' 'ej jejHa'choH.*

*Even the best blade will rust and grow dull unless it is cared for.*



*batlh Heghlu'chugh noDnISbe' vay'.*

*An honorable death requires no vengeance.*



*cheqotlhchugh maHaghbe''a'? cheDuQchugh mareghbe''a'? cheQIHchugh
manoDbe''a'?*

*Tickle us, do we not laugh? Prick us, do we not bleed? Wrong us, shall we
not seek revenge?*



*potlhbe'chugh yay qatlh pe''eghlu'?*

*If winning is not important, then why keep score?*



*Qu' buSHa'chugh SuvwI', batlhHa' vangchugh, qoj matlhHa'chugh, pagh ghaH
SuvwI''e'.*

*If a warrior ignores duty, acts dishonorably, or is disloyal, he is
nothing.*



*narghbe'chugh SuvwI' qa' taH may'.*

*If the warrior's spirit has not escaped, the battle is still going on.*



*Ha'DIbaH DaSop 'e' DaHechbe'chugh yIHoHQo'.*

*Do not kill an animal unless you intend to eat it.*



*leghlaHchu'be'chugh mIn lo'laHbe' taj jej.*

*A sharp knife is nothing without a sharp eye.*



*'oy'be'lu'chugh Qapbe'lu'.*

*No pain, no gain.*



*Suvbe'chugh SuvwI' tlhuHbe' SuvwI'.*

*If a warrior does not fight, he does not breathe.*



*'oy'naQ Dalo'be'chugh not nenghep lop puq.*

*If you don't use the painstik, the child will never celebrate his Age of
Ascension.*



*noH QapmeH wo' Qaw'lu'chugh yay chavbe'lu' 'ej wo' choqmeH may'
DoHlu'chugh lujbe'lu'.*

*Destroying an empire to win a war is no victory, and ending a battle to
save an empire is no defeat.*



*SuyDuj DaQaw'chugh qagh DaHoH.*

*If you destroy the merchant ship, you kill gagh.*





                When I’m a bit less sleepy and less haunted by memories of
conditions from classical languages of our world (simple condition …
contrary-to-fact condition … future more probable …. Less probable future
…), I’ll mention conditions on Khlějha.  Those conditions are just plain
silly.

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March 2006, Week 4
March 2006, Week 3
March 2006, Week 2
March 2006, Week 1
February 2006, Week 4
February 2006, Week 3
February 2006, Week 2
February 2006, Week 1
January 2006, Week 5
January 2006, Week 4
January 2006, Week 3
January 2006, Week 2
January 2006, Week 1
December 2005, Week 5
December 2005, Week 4
December 2005, Week 3
December 2005, Week 2
December 2005, Week 1
November 2005, Week 5
November 2005, Week 4
November 2005, Week 3
November 2005, Week 2
November 2005, Week 1
October 2005, Week 5
October 2005, Week 4
October 2005, Week 3
October 2005, Week 2
October 2005, Week 1
September 2005, Week 5
September 2005, Week 4
September 2005, Week 3
September 2005, Week 2
September 2005, Week 1
August 2005, Week 5
August 2005, Week 4
August 2005, Week 3
August 2005, Week 2
August 2005, Week 1
July 2005, Week 5
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July 2005, Week 3
July 2005, Week 2
July 2005, Week 1
June 2005, Week 5
June 2005, Week 4
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June 2005, Week 1
May 2005, Week 5
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May 2005, Week 3
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May 2005, Week 1
April 2005, Week 5
April 2005, Week 4
April 2005, Week 3
April 2005, Week 2
April 2005, Week 1
March 2005, Week 5
March 2005, Week 4
March 2005, Week 3
March 2005, Week 2
March 2005, Week 1
February 2005, Week 4
February 2005, Week 3
February 2005, Week 2
February 2005, Week 1
January 2005, Week 5
January 2005, Week 4
January 2005, Week 3
January 2005, Week 2
January 2005, Week 1
December 2004, Week 5
December 2004, Week 4
December 2004, Week 3
December 2004, Week 2
December 2004, Week 1
November 2004, Week 5
November 2004, Week 4
November 2004, Week 3
November 2004, Week 2
November 2004, Week 1
October 2004, Week 5
October 2004, Week 4
October 2004, Week 3
October 2004, Week 2
October 2004, Week 1
September 2004, Week 5
September 2004, Week 4
September 2004, Week 3
September 2004, Week 2
September 2004, Week 1
August 2004, Week 5
August 2004, Week 4
August 2004, Week 3
August 2004, Week 2
August 2004, Week 1
July 2004, Week 5
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July 2004, Week 3
July 2004, Week 2
July 2004, Week 1
June 2004, Week 5
June 2004, Week 4
June 2004, Week 3
June 2004, Week 2
June 2004, Week 1
May 2004, Week 5
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May 2004, Week 3
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May 2004, Week 1
April 2004, Week 5
April 2004, Week 4
April 2004, Week 3
April 2004, Week 2
April 2004, Week 1
March 2004, Week 5
March 2004, Week 4
March 2004, Week 3
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February 2004, Week 3
February 2004, Week 2
February 2004, Week 1
January 2004, Week 5
January 2004, Week 4
January 2004, Week 3
January 2004, Week 2
January 2004, Week 1
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December 2003, Week 3
December 2003, Week 2
December 2003, Week 1
November 2003, Week 5
November 2003, Week 4
November 2003, Week 3
November 2003, Week 2
November 2003, Week 1
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October 2003, Week 4
October 2003, Week 3
October 2003, Week 2
October 2003, Week 1
September 2003, Week 5
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September 2003, Week 3
September 2003, Week 2
September 2003, Week 1
August 2003, Week 5
August 2003, Week 4
August 2003, Week 3
August 2003, Week 2
August 2003, Week 1
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July 2003, Week 3
July 2003, Week 2
July 2003, Week 1
June 2003, Week 5
June 2003, Week 4
June 2003, Week 3
June 2003, Week 2
June 2003, Week 1
May 2003, Week 5
May 2003, Week 4
May 2003, Week 3
May 2003, Week 2
May 2003, Week 1
April 2003, Week 5
April 2003, Week 4
April 2003, Week 3
April 2003, Week 2
April 2003, Week 1
March 2003, Week 5
March 2003, Week 4
March 2003, Week 3
March 2003, Week 2
March 2003, Week 1
February 2003, Week 4
February 2003, Week 3
February 2003, Week 2
February 2003, Week 1
January 2003, Week 5
January 2003, Week 4
January 2003, Week 3
January 2003, Week 2
January 2003, Week 1
December 2002, Week 5
December 2002, Week 4
December 2002, Week 3
December 2002, Week 2
December 2002, Week 1
November 2002, Week 5
November 2002, Week 4
November 2002, Week 3
November 2002, Week 2
November 2002, Week 1
October 2002, Week 5
October 2002, Week 4
October 2002, Week 3
October 2002, Week 2
October 2002, Week 1
September 2002, Week 5
September 2002, Week 4
September 2002, Week 3
September 2002, Week 2
September 2002, Week 1
August 2002, Week 5
August 2002, Week 4
August 2002, Week 3
August 2002, Week 2
August 2002, Week 1
July 2002, Week 5
July 2002, Week 4
July 2002, Week 3
July 2002, Week 2
July 2002, Week 1
June 2002, Week 5
June 2002, Week 4
June 2002, Week 3
June 2002, Week 2
June 2002, Week 1
May 2002, Week 5
May 2002, Week 4
May 2002, Week 3
May 2002, Week 2
May 2002, Week 1
April 2002, Week 5
April 2002, Week 4
April 2002, Week 3
April 2002, Week 2
April 2002, Week 1
March 2002, Week 5
March 2002, Week 4
March 2002, Week 3
March 2002, Week 2
March 2002, Week 1
February 2002, Week 4
February 2002, Week 3
February 2002, Week 2
February 2002, Week 1
January 2002, Week 5
January 2002, Week 4
January 2002, Week 3
January 2002, Week 2
January 2002, Week 1
December 2001, Week 5
December 2001, Week 4
December 2001, Week 3
December 2001, Week 2
December 2001, Week 1
November 2001, Week 5
November 2001, Week 4
November 2001, Week 3
November 2001, Week 2
November 2001, Week 1
October 2001, Week 5
October 2001, Week 4
October 2001, Week 3
October 2001, Week 2
October 2001, Week 1
September 2001, Week 5
September 2001, Week 4
September 2001, Week 3
September 2001, Week 2
September 2001, Week 1
August 2001, Week 5
August 2001, Week 4
August 2001, Week 3
August 2001, Week 2
August 2001, Week 1
July 2001, Week 5
July 2001, Week 4
July 2001, Week 3
July 2001, Week 2
July 2001, Week 1
June 2001, Week 5
June 2001, Week 4
June 2001, Week 3
June 2001, Week 2
June 2001, Week 1
May 2001, Week 5
May 2001, Week 4
May 2001, Week 3
May 2001, Week 2
May 2001, Week 1
April 2001, Week 5
April 2001, Week 4
April 2001, Week 3
April 2001, Week 2
April 2001, Week 1
March 2001, Week 5
March 2001, Week 4
March 2001, Week 3
March 2001, Week 2
March 2001, Week 1
February 2001, Week 4
February 2001, Week 3
February 2001, Week 2
February 2001, Week 1
January 2001, Week 5
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January 2001, Week 3
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November 2000, Week 1
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October 2000, Week 1
September 2000, Week 5
September 2000, Week 4
September 2000, Week 3
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September 2000, Week 1
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June 2000, Week 5
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June 2000, Week 3
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June 2000, Week 1
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May 2000, Week 3
May 2000, Week 2
May 2000, Week 1
April 2000, Week 5
April 2000, Week 4
April 2000, Week 3
April 2000, Week 2
April 2000, Week 1
March 2000, Week 5
March 2000, Week 4
March 2000, Week 3
March 2000, Week 2
March 2000, Week 1
February 2000, Week 5
February 2000, Week 4
February 2000, Week 3
February 2000, Week 2
February 2000, Week 1
January 2000, Week 5
January 2000, Week 4
January 2000, Week 3
January 2000, Week 2
January 2000, Week 1
December 1999, Week 5
December 1999, Week 4
December 1999, Week 3
December 1999, Week 2
December 1999, Week 1
November 1999, Week 5
November 1999, Week 4
November 1999, Week 3
November 1999, Week 2
November 1999, Week 1
October 1999, Week 5
October 1999, Week 4
October 1999, Week 3
October 1999, Week 2
October 1999, Week 1
September 1999, Week 5
September 1999, Week 4
September 1999, Week 3
September 1999, Week 2
September 1999, Week 1
August 1999, Week 5
August 1999, Week 4
August 1999, Week 3
August 1999, Week 2
August 1999, Week 1
July 1999, Week 5
July 1999, Week 4
July 1999, Week 3
July 1999, Week 2
July 1999, Week 1
June 1999, Week 5
June 1999, Week 4
June 1999, Week 3
June 1999, Week 2
June 1999, Week 1
May 1999, Week 5
May 1999, Week 4
May 1999, Week 3
May 1999, Week 2
May 1999, Week 1
April 1999, Week 5
April 1999, Week 4
April 1999, Week 3
April 1999, Week 2
April 1999, Week 1
March 1999, Week 5
March 1999, Week 4
March 1999, Week 3
March 1999, Week 2
March 1999, Week 1
February 1999, Week 5
February 1999, Week 4
February 1999, Week 3
February 1999, Week 2
February 1999, Week 1
January 1999, Week 5
January 1999, Week 4
January 1999, Week 3
January 1999, Week 2
January 1999, Week 1
December 1998, Week 5
December 1998, Week 4
December 1998, Week 3
December 1998, Week 2
December 1998, Week 1
November 1998, Week 5
November 1998, Week 4
November 1998, Week 3
November 1998, Week 2
November 1998, Week 1
October 1998, Week 5
October 1998, Week 4
October 1998, Week 3
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