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CONLANG  December 2012, Week 5

CONLANG December 2012, Week 5

Subject:

Re: USAGE: Can't we say that a language is always related to a "people"?

From:

Matthew Martin <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 31 Dec 2012 13:11:23 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (18 lines)

>A possible problem is that some languages, such as
> sign languages, are not directly related to a separate
> "people/ethny/group/community", so I should "define a people" for each
> language (American deaf people, lojbanist people, etc.).

I think a better example of what you are trying to get at is maybe, communication systems like modern mathematical notation or maybe programming languages.  In the former case, there isn't necessarily a lot of social interaction of the sort you see with natural languages, there aren't that many competing dialects in the case of math. In the case of programming, most of the time communication is with the computer and sometimes with other software developers.  Both of these cut across regular social group & language boundaries.

Now for the deaf, the Deaf, and lojbanistan:
The deaf are people who just lost their hearing. If they are late in life deaf, they are learning ASL as a 2nd language, are not necessarily (at first or sometimes ever) very good at it and they prefer to hang out with the English speaking hearing, sort of the way immigrants prefer to hang out in the immigrant community.  

The implication that the Deaf are an incidental group, like the group of people who have to communicate with their hands while their mouths are full of cookies-- in the right part of Washington DC this would lead to a small riot.  The Deaf on the other hand, probably speak ASL as their native language, use English as a foreign language and prefer to hang out with other Deaf for the same reason that you (and I) don't immediately gravitate to hanging out with mono-lingual Mongolian speakers.  Learning languages is hard and getting people to learn your language is crazy hard and that has real consequences for who you hang out with.

By the way I highly recommend taking the time to break out of ones normal group, since ASL (and the other SLs) are great fun and Mongolian has awesome pop music.

I think the people of lojbanistan are indeed an identifiable social group and in a more interesting way than the group of people who are just logic specialists or mathematicians who use Liebniz's notation for calculus.  For example, there have been weddings where the vows were in lojban.

I don't know about your language, but I would imagine a word should reflect the salient points of the world according to the inner logic of your language and it's speakers (which could just be you or some imaginary entity). If social grouping is important, then you will be likely to create words that reflect social characteristics. On the otherhand, in a my cat's conlang, he's going to mostly have words that divide up the world into me, mother cat, edible creatures, creatures that might want to eat me, creatures that don't taste good and things that smell like citrus.  In a catlang, social groups are irrelevant noise, like having a word for people who often fart while looking to the east and remembering about the things they should not remember. 

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