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CONLANG  December 2012, Week 5

CONLANG December 2012, Week 5

Subject:

Re: If

From:

neo gu <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 31 Dec 2012 15:31:21 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (67 lines)

On Thu, 27 Dec 2012 03:00:35 -0500, Sai <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

>Something I kinda enjoy about working on UNLWS[0] w/ Alex Fink is the
>philosophy-of-language-ish parts required.
>
>One of our longer term projects has been an interpretation of the
>Prayer of St. Francis (which is incidentally the only one I ever
>pray).
>
>The first verse of it has essentially the form "where there is a lack
>of X, may I provide X". This in turn requires expressing "need", which
>we analyze as an "if" — "X needs Y" is really "X is good [in way Z]
>only if Y".
>
>And "if" in turn brings up the issue of hypothetical nonce worlds
>(e.g. "if I were rich, …" creates a discussion where you are talking
>about an alternate world which inherits from this one but has your
>wealth status overriden).
>
>How to do _that_ took us a few months off and on to work out, probably
>a few hours of actual discussion and lots of mulling inbetween.
>
>We finally decided on a solution. It requires a predicate "X is true
>in world Y", a special cartouche which delineates a world, and a
>special pronoun (or predicate?) which references the extant world
>(i.e. a _this_ keyword). (We haven't fixed on forms for those yet.)
>
>Thus, "X if Y" is "in a world defined by Y, X".
>
>It also turned out to want a revision to our set of articles;
>previously, we had only indefinite and generic (there's no definite
>article, since we do that by direct reference). Now there are two
>more: universal and correlative (e.g. Indians are _correlative_
>phone-center workers — the generic Indian is not one, but they're more
>common than one would expect).
>
>(Another gloss of the correlative article: "being an A is [possibly
>weak] Bayesian evidence for being a B".)
>
>We also revised the form of the articles: indefinite article is now
>just a dot, paralleling the form of the number 1.
>
>Incidentally, we previously considered and rejected the more usual
>loglang adoption of _logical if_ (i.e. "not [hypothesis] ior
>[conclusion]") as just not really the sort of thing that one wants to
>naturally _say_ in language — specifically, the "if false than
>anything" part is not something anyone actually uses.
>
>We also didn't need an 'and' — that just falls out of our
>predicates-and-bindings framework. "Or" we handled by basically "one
>of [group of things] is true", which has the same inclusive/exclusive
>Gricean ambiguity as in English (i.e. exactly-one vs one-or-more,
>which we can disambiguate if needed).
>
>So though many loglangs love their logical conjunctions, so far we
>don't have any. :-P (OTOH, UNLWS doesn't _set out_ to be a loglang,
>but primarily rather a 2D written language.)
>
>Anyway, whee engelangs, making you rethink such basic kinds of things.

I always try to rethink basic things, not that I'm ever successful. I wish I understood this thread.

>
>- Sai
>
>[0] http://saizai.com/nlws

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