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CONLANG  January 2013, Week 2

CONLANG January 2013, Week 2

Subject:

Re: Neanderthals again

From:

Nikolay Ivankov <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 12 Jan 2013 11:05:33 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (64 lines)

On Sat, Jan 12, 2013 at 7:40 AM, George Corley <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 5:18 PM, BPJ <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 10:39 PM, Amanda Babcock Furrow <
> [log in to unmask]>
>  wrote:
>
> [snip]

> > On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 07:14:59PM +0100, Jörg Rhiemeier wrote:
> >
> > > Indeed, only very simple utterances are possible in such a
> > > linear language.  Even simple transitive sentences such as
> > > "the hunter killed the lion" are beyond the capabilities of
> > > such a "language": without context, you cannot tell who
> > > killed whom!  Only when you see whether what your fellows
> > > drag home is the body of a lion or of a hunter, you know ;)
> >
> > Semantics!  You need two different verbs (or perhaps not verbs,
> > if there is no syntax, there are no verbs), one for animals-
> > killing-humans, one for humans-killing-animals.  The party
> > returning from the hunt could cry out, in effect, "Hunter
> > lion bagged!" for man-kills-lion, "Hunter lion killed!" for
> > lion-kills-man, or, if the hunt went spectacularly badly, even
> > "Hunter hunter murdered!"  Although I note that "Hunter" is
> > redundant in all of these utterances.  It's more likely you'd
> > return shouting "Man-down!" or "Bringing-kills!"
> >
> > They could also have "Warrior enemy felled-by" vs. "Warrior
> > enemy got-one", but again I think they could just use the
> > "Casualties!" vs. "Kills!" calls.  You get the drift.
> >
>
> Morphology could also take care of things: "Hunter-ERG lion kill", but that
> may require somewhat more complex processing than we're thinking about
> here.
>

Though by far not a linguist, I'd assume that ergativity is already a bit
complicated thing. But hey, the things may also be ruled out by
activity/stativity. Instead of animal-kills-human and human-kills-enemy,
you could also have ferocious-beast-that-kills and
ferocious-beast-yet-killed. Thus
hunter FBTK kill - a lion killed a hunter
hunter FBYK kill - a hunter killed a lion

AFAIK, Pra-PIE had distinction between aqua/water, ignis/flame, flesh/meat
following precisely this idea, and I wonder, if boar/swine may be a remnant
of such scheme.

And we should not also forget that ancient hunters haven't been e-mailng
each other about the outcome of the hunt. There are still emotions that you
can read on the face. There are also possibilities:
hunter lion kill hooray!!!
vs.
sob:( kill lion hunter

Also, basically you know everyone in the community, so there is indeed much
you can read from the context.


> [snip]
>

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