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CONLANG  January 2013, Week 2

CONLANG January 2013, Week 2

Subject:

Re: Introductory Linguistics Assignment

From:

And Rosta <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 10 Jan 2013 19:49:17 +0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (57 lines)

MorphemeAddict, On 10/01/2013 19:12:
> On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 4:50 AM, George Corley<[log in to unmask]>  wrote:
>> On Tue, Jan 8, 2013 at 9:08 PM, And Rosta<[log in to unmask]>  wrote:
>>> I think you characterize that criterion correctly. But the
>>> question is: In a universe in which English was spoken only by
>>> robots in whom the rules of English were hardwired, would English
>>> not be a language? In my view, English is English, regardless of
>>> how its speakers come to know it.
>>
>>   Ah, but if the whole language is hard-wired,
>
> The assumption was that the RULES of English are hardwired. Nothing was
> said about vocabulary.

A vocabulary item is a body of rules, so I didn't intend the hardwired rules to exclude vocabulary. Nevertheless, George's point makes me think that it is useful to maintain a notional distinction between vocabulary items and the rest of the grammar, because the perfect language(-design) is one that can have its vocabulary expanded as the need arises.

Logan Kearsley, On 10/01/2013 19:22:
> On 10 January 2013 12:01, And Rosta<[log in to unmask]>  wrote:
>> Logan Kearsley, On 09/01/2013 20:30:
>>
>>> *parsing* English is pretty much a solved problem. There's still
>>> progress to be made in doing it *efficiently* and in figuring out how
>>> humans do it (it's almost certainly not how state-of-the-art parsing
>>> algorithms currently do it), but it's to the point of being a
>>> two-week project in an undergraduate NLP class to write a parser that
>>> is as accurate as human annotators (as measured by disagreement
>>> between different human annotators).
>>
>> It can't *really* be a solved problem, because we don't yet know what
>> syntactic structures of English are like. All current theories fall a long
>> way from being correct -- far enough as to not approximate correctness.
>> (IMO, of course.)
>
> I would consider that as part of the "figuring out how humans do it"
> part. Pick a theory of syntax, and for most of them (I won't say *all*
> just in case there's one that I don't know about, which is likely)
> there are parsers that can get human-level performance on generating a
> parse according to that theory. And even though we can agree that
> those theories are probably wrong about how humans do it, they produce
> results which are nevertheless empirically useful.

Fair enough.
  
>> And beyond that, English sentences are massively ambiguous. You shouldn't
>> expect a parser to be able to disambiguate, but what is this hypothetical
>> undergraduate parser supposed to be able to produce? Every possible parse
>> for a given orthographic sentence? Or at least one possible parse?
>
> It's not hypothetical. I actually took a class in which we had to
> actually write parsers. And most people managed pretty dang good ones.
> The usual intended output is a list of some number of possible parses
> sorted by probability, or else the single most-likely-correct parse.

Since -- I assume -- the parsers don't have recourse to Pragmatic processes of assessing parse probability, I presume that calculations of probability must be based on statistical analysis of syntactic pattern frequencies in large corpora. Is that right? I wonder whether humans do that, and whether, even if humans don't do it, it still tends to succeed in correctly selecting the intended parse.

--And.

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