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CONLANG  January 2013, Week 3

CONLANG January 2013, Week 3

Subject:

Re: Vulcan Language (was: Loglan VS Natlang)

From:

Tony Harris <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 19 Jan 2013 10:09:52 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (86 lines)

*WOW* was this message delayed!  I sent this one yesterday, before 
several other people commented, and it only showed in the list today, 
meaning it's all pretty much old info.


On 01/18/2013 10:22 AM, Tony Harris wrote:
> Actually there's a fairly developed Golic Vulcan, including script. 
> Based the same way Mark Okrand did Klingon, take the passages of 
> spoken language with subtitles out of the first film where it's used, 
> then parse that back into the language, and build from there. 
> Paramount never officially approved it, although I think I heard that 
> they did actually use some bits, without attribution.
>
> See here: http://www.stogeek.com/wiki/Category:Vulcan_Language_Institute
>
>
> On 01/18/2013 10:17 AM, George Corley wrote:
>> On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 8:44 AM, Padraic Brown <[log in to unmask]> 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>>> I discussed this elsewhere and those who know more about Star Trek 
>>>>> than
>>>>> me seem to be saying that there is too much already written about
>>>>> Vulcans and their space elvish language,
>>>> But the Vulcans of Star Trek do NOT exist.
>>> True, and he didn't say they actually exist, but even if they did, 
>>> there
>>> would be no reason to suppose they must speak a logical language 
>>> (such as
>>> Lojban). We know just enough about Star Trek Vulcan culture, physiology
>>> and psychology to know that they are not so different from us: they are
>>> not logical by nature, but rather by long and arduous training. It may
>>> very well be that those Vulcans who are deepest in the art of logic use
>>> some kind of loglang as a second language; but I'd doubt that such a 
>>> beast
>>> would be their cradle language.
>>>
>> We really don't have any info on the Vulcan language.  As far as I know,
>> there are only a few lines in the language, developed by Mark Okrand to
>> match the mouth movements of the scene as performed in English. I'm sure
>> people have analyzed that small bit of data quite thoroughly, but I 
>> doubt
>> we'll see more of Vulcan language later on.
>>
>>
>>> Within the ST universe, we also know that Romulans and Vulcans are very
>>> close (if not identical) physiologically and they have a shared 
>>> history.
>>> It would stand to reason that the basic nature of the Vulcan 
>>> language(s)
>>> is more like that of the Romulans, barring some sort of radical purge.
>>
>> It is well-established and often stated that the Romulan and Vulcan
>> languages are similar, so no purge.  Probably both races speak some
>> descendant of a language that existed before the split, which would 
>> in turn
>> be at least a descendant of a language that existed before the Vulcans
>> learned to suppress their emotions.  Certainly such a language would be
>> naturally evolved.
>>
>>
>>>>> but I think real world Vulcans would either convert their natural
>>>>> language to a loglan or write one from scratch.
>>> They might very well do the latter.
>>
>> That would be very interesting to explore.  I've noticed that as Star 
>> Trek
>> went on Vulcan Logic became less a rationalist ideology and more of a
>> religion of sorts.  Vulcans always did have incorrect or unusual 
>> ideas as
>> to what was "logical" (look up the "Straw Vulcan" trope), and as their
>> culture got fleshed out through the decades with rituals and 
>> mythology it
>> seems more and more that Vulcan Logic is very dogmatic and is revered 
>> in a
>> way that seems quite religious.
>>
>> As such, it's hard to predict what they would do.  Would they decide 
>> that
>> the "logical" course of action would be to keep their own language, just
>> out of pure pragmatism?  Would they iron out some irregularities and be
>> done with it?  Or would the priesthood develop a loglang for themselves?
>>   Lots of interesting questions that we, unfortunately, can't answer, 
>> since
>> none of us get paid by Paramount to write about Vulcans.

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