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CONLANG  January 2013, Week 3

CONLANG January 2013, Week 3

Subject:

Re: So, about Ithkuil...

From:

selpa'i <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 20 Jan 2013 19:44:46 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (63 lines)

la'o me. David Peterson .me cusku di'e
> On Jan 19, 2013, at 5:46 PM, selpa'i <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> It saddens me a bit to read this. Do you have solid evidence for
>> your belief or is it more of an intuitive guess? Surely, you
>> understand the complexity of Ithkuil the best, but I don't want to
>> easily give up my hopes that "THAT level of fluency" is attainable.
>> Why do you think it's impossible?
>
> If I could add, you might want to search the archives for discussions
> of Fith or Shallow Fith and its alienness. One of the things that And
> Rosta pointed out about Fith is that it's possible to speak it
> without taking advantage of some of the oddities of its stack
> operations. Doing so would technically be speaking Fith, it just
> wouldn't be very interesting, compared to what it's possible to do
> with Fith. I think John's saying the same thing here.

Yes, this parallel to Fith came to mind immediately. I was there for
that discussion; in fact, I asked the same question there: "Can humans
speak Fith", and of course the answer about "shallow" and "real" Fith
was given.

While I probably agree with the distintion, you, or And Rosta are
making, I think it's also worth noting that English is not being used to
its full potential by anyone either. It's impossible. As soon as a
certain amount of nesting starts to happen, both the speaker and the
listener lose track of what's going on. Are they not speaking English? I
think they are.

> As to the benefits, I think the personal benefits would far outweigh
> any possible external benefits. I, for one, would be impressed, but
> that only goes so far. If the Ithkuil experiment works as I think it
> could, working with it might sharpen one's observational and
> analytical skills when it comes to examining some gestalt—whatever it
> is—and breaking it down.

I agree, and therefore I believe that it *is* worth bothering to learn
it. Even if one doesn't get to the very top of the mountain, one still
gets to enjoy a great view.

> Theoretically with Ithkuil one goes beyond metaphorical understanding
> allowing one to break down any concept into its actual component
> parts. This isn't something that comes easily or naturally to most
> people. If you continue to work with Ithkuil, perhaps you will
> improve your ability to deconstruct abstract phenomena.

Yes, maybe. We'd need to find out.

> I'm not sure if this would be encouraging or discouraging, and I
> don't have anything to back this up. These are hypotheses and
> opinions. If you were to work with Ithkuil and try to gain some
> measure of fluency, I'm sure the subject would make a wonderful
> article for Fiat Lingua. :)

Well maybe it would make an interesting article if a person had not only
tried, but also succeeded. Just "Person X is trying to learn Ithkuil"
doesn't sound very interesting until there is some evidence that Person
X is actually making noteworthy progress. (Not to mention how
anticlimactic it would be to announce in the next article that Person X
failed!)

mu'o mi'e la selpa'i

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