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CONLANG  January 2013, Week 3

CONLANG January 2013, Week 3

Subject:

Re: Vulcan Language (was: Loglan VS Natlang)

From:

Daniel Prohaska <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 20 Jan 2013 13:12:28 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (102 lines)

Having said that I did, however, thoroughly enjoy her books. Bloody good read, themů
Dan


On Jan 18, 2013, at 7:28 PM, Adam Walker wrote:

> There is a fair amount of Vulcan material in some of the novels and an
> explanation of the exact relationship between the vulcan and Romaulan
> languages (and how the Romulan language was purposefully "evolved" away
> from the Vulcan mother tongue after the Sundering in some of Diane Duane's
> books (IIRC). The Romulan Way has quite a bit of Rhiannsu dialogue in it
> an a glossary at the back.
>
> Adam
>
> On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 12:23 PM, MorphemeAddict <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 10:17 AM, George Corley <[log in to unmask]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 18, 2013 at 8:44 AM, Padraic Brown <[log in to unmask]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> I discussed this elsewhere and those who know more about Star Trek
>>> than
>>>>>> me seem to be saying that there is too much already written about
>>>>>> Vulcans and their space elvish language,
>>>>>
>>>>> But the Vulcans of Star Trek do NOT exist.
>>>>
>>>> True, and he didn't say they actually exist, but even if they did,
>> there
>>>> would be no reason to suppose they must speak a logical language (such
>> as
>>>> Lojban). We know just enough about Star Trek Vulcan culture, physiology
>>>> and psychology to know that they are not so different from us: they are
>>>> not logical by nature, but rather by long and arduous training. It may
>>>> very well be that those Vulcans who are deepest in the art of logic use
>>>> some kind of loglang as a second language; but I'd doubt that such a
>>> beast
>>>> would be their cradle language.
>>>>
>>>
>>> We really don't have any info on the Vulcan language. As far as I know,
>>> there are only a few lines in the language, developed by Mark Okrand to
>>> match the mouth movements of the scene as performed in English. I'm sure
>>> people have analyzed that small bit of data quite thoroughly, but I doubt
>>> we'll see more of Vulcan language later on.
>>>
>>
>> Here is a Vulcan dictionary: http://www.starbase-10.de/vld/
>> And some grammar information here:
>> http://www.stogeek.com/wiki/Category:Vulcan_Language_Institute
>>
>> stevo
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Within the ST universe, we also know that Romulans and Vulcans are very
>>>> close (if not identical) physiologically and they have a shared
>> history.
>>>> It would stand to reason that the basic nature of the Vulcan
>> language(s)
>>>> is more like that of the Romulans, barring some sort of radical purge.
>>>
>>>
>>> It is well-established and often stated that the Romulan and Vulcan
>>> languages are similar, so no purge. Probably both races speak some
>>> descendant of a language that existed before the split, which would in
>> turn
>>> be at least a descendant of a language that existed before the Vulcans
>>> learned to suppress their emotions. Certainly such a language would be
>>> naturally evolved.
>>>
>>>
>>>>>> but I think real world Vulcans would either convert their natural
>>>>>> language to a loglan or write one from scratch.
>>>>
>>>> They might very well do the latter.
>>>
>>>
>>> That would be very interesting to explore. I've noticed that as Star
>> Trek
>>> went on Vulcan Logic became less a rationalist ideology and more of a
>>> religion of sorts. Vulcans always did have incorrect or unusual ideas as
>>> to what was "logical" (look up the "Straw Vulcan" trope), and as their
>>> culture got fleshed out through the decades with rituals and mythology it
>>> seems more and more that Vulcan Logic is very dogmatic and is revered in
>> a
>>> way that seems quite religious.
>>>
>>> As such, it's hard to predict what they would do. Would they decide that
>>> the "logical" course of action would be to keep their own language, just
>>> out of pure pragmatism? Would they iron out some irregularities and be
>>> done with it? Or would the priesthood develop a loglang for themselves?
>>> Lots of interesting questions that we, unfortunately, can't answer,
>> since
>>> none of us get paid by Paramount to write about Vulcans.
>>>
>>

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