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CONLANG  January 2013, Week 3

CONLANG January 2013, Week 3

Subject:

Re: On Compounding

From:

Melroch <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 16 Jan 2013 00:08:09 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (79 lines)

Den tisdagen den 15:e januari 2013 skrev Alex Fink<[log in to unmask]>:

> On Tue, 15 Jan 2013 21:22:03 +0100, Melroch <[log in to unmask]<javascript:;>>
> wrote:
>
> >Den tisdagen den 15:e januari 2013 skrev Roman Rausch:
> >
> >>
> >> Ha, the discussion from p. 27 onwards about single- and two-sided scales
> >> reminded me of something... (this:
> >> http://conference.conlang.org/lcc4/speakers/rrlcc4.pdf)
> >>
> >> And I thought I was clever when I gave Sohlob lots of suffixes for
> >degrees of comparison:
> >
> >_-çp_ 'maximally'
> >_-mp_ 'very/excessively much (more)'
> >_-sp_ 'most'
> >_-ft_ 'rather much (more)'
> >_-p_ 'more'
> >_-k_ 'medium, normally, average'
> >_-xt_ 'rather medium, rather average'
> >_-t_ 'less'
> >_-st_ 'rather less, rather little'
> >_-rt_ 'least'
> >_-ns_ 'very much less/excessively little/less'
> >_-lt_ 'minimally'
>
> Without commenting on the semantics of these suffixes, the forms you've
> given them scream non-naturalism to me. Namely, it's a case of overusing
> the phonological template -([continuant])[stop]. I presume Sohlob words
> aren't phonotactically constrained to end on a stop, in which case it's
> already quite a coincidence that these all have that form -- and even if
> there is such a constraint(!), it's quite a coincidence none of them
> contain an extra syllable. Even if there were some historical reason for
> all that, you've used 12 forms out of the, hm, perhaps 24 available
> ([0NlrfsCx][ptk]), and a birthday paradox computation says there's only
> 3.5% chance that 12 randomly chosen forms from those 24 would all be
> distinct. Too many improbabilities for my own taste.
>
> Alex
>

 Sohlob actually favors continuant + stop rather strongly, but these
morphemes are historically mostly bimorphemic or even trimorphemic:

_-çp_ < *-z-p<y>u
_-mp_ < *-N-pu
_-sp_ < *-z-pu
_-ft_ < *-t-pu
_-p_ < *-p<:>u
_-k_ < *-k<:>a
_-xt_ < *-t-ka
_-t_ < *-t<:>ï
_-st_ < *-t-tï
_-rt_ < *-z-tï
_-ns_ < *-N-t<y>ï
_-lt_ < *-z-t<y>ï ([r_j] > /l/ is regular)

So you can see that if you take a step back this is a pretty well defined
little paradigm. I even cheated a bit since the //z// would already have
split into /r/ and /s/ at the stage represented by the starred forms. If
you go even further back you will find these are syncopated forms of a
language which had phonotactics not dissimilar to Japanese.

I plead guilty to a predilection for continuant + stop clusters, and there
actually is a constraint against polysyllabic words ending in a vowel
because of a relatively recent syncope/apocope. Heleb which is a bit later
than Classical Sohlob has reintroduced final vowels through loss of [G] and
[h] and crasis of [j w].

The paradigm is still way too regular; Sohlob is a work in progress and
these forms are 15+ years old -- almost since I took up conlanging again.
They used to be even worse with //s// for //z// and //<y>// for //t//. It
looked like taken straight from I.E. + (m)p taken from the Finnish
comparative.

/bpj

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