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CONLANG  January 2013, Week 4

CONLANG January 2013, Week 4

Subject:

Fw: Using pre-existing conlang Roots to create a new language

From:

Elliott Lash <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Elliott Lash <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 26 Jan 2013 06:13:16 -0800

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (101 lines)



I am trying once again to forward the message that I sent to a private sender to the list, here it is:


Hi, thanks for your interest. The article is actually inflectedted but not to the same extent as in German.

You see two forms in the sentences given.
De See wre of den Esset ernren.

De and den.

There is also a genitive, dez or des. This is from. *tadi, withe the silinestic genitive suffix -di.

There is no accusative form of the article, as you can see in the second sentence given. This is because silinestic accusatives ended in -n, which is lost at the end of words in Germanic language and therefore also in this ersatz Germanic Lang.  The German accusative article den is from a form with a final vowel, as you can tell from its old English cognate, thone, with th replacing thorn.  I couldn't replicate this in the fake Germanic Lang.

I also couldn't create gender distinctions, as that is
 completely foreign from silinestic.

The word 'of' is supposed to evoke auf in German.  In fact both have similar etymologies.  Auf is cognate to English up, while 'of' is from opod, which means up. It is cognate to silindion opho.

As for sn, this is of course utterly non-german. An alternative would be to create a personal pronoun from the root *me, which meant here.  Then I could approximate the German mich or mir.

Elliott 



________________________________
 From:  James Kane <[log in to unmask]>; 
To:  Elliott Lash <[log in to unmask]>; 
Subject:  Re: Using pre-existing conlang Roots to create a new language 
Sent:  Sat, Jan 26, 2013 5:33:00 AM 
 

This is very cool! I have been trying to give some of my descendent languages the feel of certain of natural languages but not to this extent.

I am not that familiar with German but I can tell that it isn't Standard German - the definite article isn't inflected and there doesn't seem to be obvious morphological gender distinctions and the words of and sn seem somewhat foreign - but I could very easily believe it was some dialectal variety.

This is a very cool project. Have you tried any other languages? I would love to see a French or Romance lookalike.

James

On 26/01/2013, at 3:03 PM, Elliott Lash <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> 
> 
> Dear all,
> 
> I have not been posting at all for a few years, but I have been trying to keep up with the
 conversations. One of my interests has always been to use my database of roots for proto-Silinestic to create new languages, specifically languages that sounds like they are sort of like weird versions of real actual languages - like German for example. 
> 
> I have finally found a way to make it work! I think.
> 
> Here are some sentences:
> 
> De See wre of den Esset ernren.
> "The dove was sitting on the nest."
> *ta swa bus opod tan ess-sida essnorani
> (ta = that, swa = dove, bu-s 'be-past', opod 'over', ta-n 'that-dative', ess-sida 'on/in-sit', ess-nor-ani 'on/in-dwell-pres.participle' - the umlaut of the 'ernren is due to influence from the infinitive which is from *ess-nor-ye-llo > er-nr-ie-l > ernr-e-l/n)
> 
> By the way this would be, in Silindion:
> mistin i siva em i essiravi. 
> mist-i-n i sivaemessira-bi
>
 sit-them-impfthedoveonnest-loc
> (this has a totally different word for 'sit', but the word ernor- 'dwell' exists in Silindion and is related to ernr- in the above 'Germanic' language).
> 
> You see here that the 'Germanic' language uses the dative ending -n on the determiner, but Silindion uses the locative -bi (which was originally a post position). I am assuming the proto-language did not have any case endings (or perhaps just an nominative-accusative-genitive system). I think that it is not unrealistic for related languages to differ with regard to the placement of post/prepositions and hence the different position of the later case endings can be explained.
> 
> Another example:
> De Erzel frte sn de Wetze! 
> "The prophet told me the truth!"
> *ta arhtilo bur- st-ni de westit 
> (ta = that, arh-til-o 'future-see-er', bur- 'tell', st-ni 'me-dat', westi-t
 'true-abstr.noun')
> 
> The Silindion would be:
> Avuri sinti i astilo i vestimn!
> a-vur-i sinti i astilo i westima-n 
> AUG-tell-PAST me.dat the prophet the truth-ACC
> 
> Note that the 'Germanic' language differs from Silindion in having another abstract noun suffix -t instead of -ma - this I think is fairly common amongst related languages. 
> 
> The one thing to note her is that the past tense of the 'Germanic' language is -te. This is not directly from German -te, although of course it is modeled after it. Instead, I found a pre-existing that could wind up as -te, depending on how I worked out the sound changes and the syntactic changes.
> 
> So, there is a root *sthe^ (^ = glottal stop) in Silinestic. The -th- stands for a aspirated 't'. This mean 'stand' (it is modeled on the PIE root of a similar shape). In Silinestic, its past tense was (a)-sth^-i. I
 decided that sth- would be simplified to 'th' in the 'Germanic' language. This would then change to 'd-' (aspirated t to voiced stop seems like a fair change to me). Then this would be devoiced (in the equivalent of the High German Sound Shift). 
> 
> This would give:
> sth^i > th^i > thi > di > de > te 
> 
> Now, where to attach this? I went with the infinitive:
> *bur-ye-llo 'tell-CLASS1-INF' (-ye- is one of several infinitive class markers that existed in Silinestic).  > pur-ie-l (with the equivalent of 'Grimms law', devoicing voiced stops) > pr-ie-l (umlaut) > pfrie-l (HG sound shift) > frie-l (further change) > frien (final -l to -n, just to get it closer to German), and then fren. 
> 
> So, this gives you: frente, with syncope (a general process in the language) you get: frnte, which could be simplified to frte. 
> 
> So what do you
 think? 
> 
> Elliott

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