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CONLANG  March 2013, Week 4

CONLANG March 2013, Week 4

Subject:

Re: Pesky morphemes

From:

Patrick Dunn <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 24 Mar 2013 11:20:19 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (136 lines)

Oooh!  I read "morphoneme" as "morpheme."

What the hell is a morphoneme?




On Sun, Mar 24, 2013 at 11:06 AM, R A Brown <[log in to unmask]>wrote:

> On 24/03/2013 14:50, And Rosta wrote:
> [snip]
>
>  On Sat, 23 Mar 2013 11:50:47 +0000 R A Brown wrote:
>>>
>>>  How does one analyze _sing ~ sang ~ sung_
>>>> morphemically?
>>>>
>>>
>> First one would have to demonstrate the validity of
>> analysing anything morphemically.
>>
>
> Yes, without going quite so far, I am of the mind that while
> morphemic analysis can be useful for agglutinative
> languages, it is not a universal.  You may recall that I
> said something similar about phonemic analysis not so long ago.
>
> Use the analysis where it is useful; but remember that it is
> only one of a possible set of tool, and don't use it where
> another tool is useful.
>
>
>  The definition of a morpheme as the smallest meaningful
>> unit of form rests on the presupposition that some units
>>  of form have meaning.
>>
>
> Yes, and I've already rejected that one. The only definition
> of 'morpheme' that makes sense to me is that given by the
> late Larry Trask: "The minimal grammatical unit; the
> smallest unit which plays any part in morphology and which
> cannot be further decomposed except in phonological or
> semantic terms."
>
> I find the Wikipedia article unsatisfactory:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/**Morpheme<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morpheme>
>
> ...and reject its first sentence.
>
> I've already pointed out that some morphemes in fusional
> languages, at least, can be decomposed semantically, so they
> can hardly be the smallest unit of meaning.
>
>
>  For me, "morpheme" is the most perplexing term in the
>> whole of linguistics, being neither obviously valid and
>> useful nor obviously invalid and useless.
>>
>
> They are pesky critters - no doubt about it   :)
>
> [snip]
>
>
>> In my current thinking, I take the stem of lexeme {SING}
>>  to consist of a sequence of morphonemes (as all stems
>> do)
>>
>
> Possibly - but _morphoneme_ is not given by Trask, nor does
> David crystal give it in his 'Dictionary of Linguistics and
> Phonetics', so I suspect the term will not be too familiar
> to many on this list   ;)
>
> As far I can make out, the term comes theories of the Prague
> School Morphonology.  But as Trubetzkoy and Ułaszyn (who
> AIUI first coined the word) differ in their use of the word,
> maybe some explanation would help.  I _think_ you are using
> in Trubetzkoy's sense.
>
>
> : //s
>
>> . IAU . n . g//, where the morphoneme //IAU//, which also
>> occurs in stems of {DRINK}, {SINK} etc., is a set of
>> syntactically-conditioned (rather than phonologically- or
>> morphologically- conditioned) alternate phonemes /i, a,
>> 3/, with /i/ the default and /a, 3/ the ones conditioned
>> by certain syntactic factors.
>>
>
> Interesting.
> ==============================**=============================
>
>
> On 24/03/2013 14:54, Patrick Dunn wrote:
>
>> You win me over with the idea that "sing" is /s_N/ where
>>  _ is /i/ ~ /@/ ~ /^/.  You lose me with the assertion
>> that you slipped in there that the {g} is a morpheme
>> separate from the {n}, when to my mind they're clearly
>> just an orthographic convention for representing /N/.
>> Also, I don't imagine what {s}, {n}, or {g} contributes
>> to the word that /s_N/ doesn't.
>>
>
> But And did _not_ say that {g} is a morpheme!  He was
> speaking of _morphonemes_ which are different critters from
> morphemes.
>
> In most contemporary varieties of English _ng_ is more often
> an orthographic convention for [ŋ] (but certainly not
> always, cf. finger, longer etc.]. But some Brit English
> varieties do, in fact, pronounce _sing_ as [sɪŋg].  The
> phonemic status of [ŋ] is debatable.
>
>
> --
> Ray
> ==============================**====
> http://www.carolandray.plus.**com <http://www.carolandray.plus.com>
> ==============================**====
> "language … began with half-musical unanalysed expressions
> for individual beings and events."
> [Otto Jespersen, Progress in Language, 1895]
>



-- 
Second Person, a chapbook of poetry by Patrick Dunn, is now available for
order from Finishing Line
Press<http://www.finishinglinepress.com/NewReleasesandForthcomingTitles.htm>
and
Amazon<http://www.amazon.com/Second-Person-Patrick-Dunn/dp/1599249065/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1324342341&sr=8-2>.

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