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CONLANG  March 2013, Week 4

CONLANG March 2013, Week 4

Subject:

Re: "English has the most words of any language"

From:

Padraic Brown <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 23 Mar 2013 13:18:33 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (82 lines)

--- On Sat, 3/23/13, Gary Shannon <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> > Just popping in to say that me I'd draw the line broad and wide -- if 
> > the word is now or has ever been an English word, no matter how 
> > ancient, no matter how obscure, no matter how dialectical, no matter 
> > how foreign seeming, then it gets counted.
> 
> It seems to me that gives an unfair advantage to languages with the
> longest written record. 

Not really. I think it can rightly be argued that Indian and Chinese and
Hebrew and so forth all have written records quite a bit longer than ours. 
English's sole advantage is, as regards vocabulary size, as I've said many 
times in the past, its ability to seek out and take words from other 
languages as it wishes. If French or Icelandic want to keep themselves 
"pure" by reining in what gets imported, that's fine by me. If English 
operates more of a free-for-all smorgasbord of word borrowing, that's 
great for us.

> Does that mean we count all of Chaucer's words as English as well?.

Of course. As I said, "no matter how old / how obscure", etc.

>  And what about even older Anglo Saxon words?

I'd still count them -- after all, A-S is at the beginnings of our written
record! As I said, I'd draw the line rather broad and wide. But I can 
certainly see the sense in excluding A-S words that clearly did not 
continue or evolve into Modern English. (After all, if I accept A-S words,
why not Saxon words? Why not go all the way back to Common West Germanic,
or Proto-Indo-European!?) I wouldn't balk too much about Old English not 
being counted. I'd be increasingly hesitant about excluding MidE, 
especially as time progresses into early ModE.

I don't have a good answer as to where the cut-off should be -- 1066 might
be as good as any. But so is "the date of the first scrap of parchment
with Old English written on it".

The point, as I understand the exercise, is to determine which language
has the most words -- not "which language has the most words given certain
highly circumscribed conditions".

> I would use a much more pragmatic approach and use something like a
> large-circulation English newspaper as my source. If a word appeared
> in print in that newspaper in the last year then I would count it. 

I have no problem with this approach in the least -- so long as we're
honest about NOT calling the result any kind of definitive census of
English words, and so long as the results are clearly labeled as to which
domains were left in and which were left out.

I'd agree to call something like this a "census of words used in the LA
Times or the New Yorker" (and one wonders at how different the count might
be between them!) -- but of course, this really can neither support nor
deny the claim that English has the most words. The only real way of
doing that is to find out how many words there actually are! ;)

> If it's too archaic to appear in print today then it's no longer part of
> the language, but has become part of an older ancestral language.

Well, you are certainly welcome to this opinion -- though it's one I hope
most people don't share! I certainly and vehemently reject the very idea.
Even if I agreed about not counting obviously OE or ME words, I would, and
with all due respect, consider any accounting of English words that
specifically left out whole swathes of modern English vocabulary (be they
dialect, rare, scientific, medical or technical terms) to be inaccurate
and utterly unusable.

As far as being "pragmatic", I find it much simpler to actually count
everything, rather than argue about what ought not to be counted. I mean,
if you're counting out a jug of pocket change, do you nÚt count the
pennies and nickels, just because they're not worth anything? It's much
more pragmatic, as well as accurate, to throw the whole lot into a
Coinstar machine and find out what's actually there.

Just my opinion, and now, I bow out again.

> --gary

Padraic
 

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