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CONLANG  March 2013, Week 4

CONLANG March 2013, Week 4

Subject:

Re: "English has the most words of any language"

From:

Padraic Brown <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 27 Mar 2013 05:46:12 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (151 lines)

--- On Sat, 3/23/13, Patrick Dunn <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> The English language (all natural languages, actually) doesn't have a
> birthdate.  If you include any word, no matter how
> ancient, then you must
> stretch back to Middle English, Old English, Proto-Germanic,
> PIE, and back and back and back.

Actually, I did address precisely and exactly this point.

> And then there are non-words that nonetheless find their way
> into dictionaries, such as dord.  Do we include them,
> because someone once
> thought that "D or d" was a word?

Well, having already been so kindly outed as a linguistical dick 
comparator, YES, of course! What a silly question to ask.

> Also, the definition of "word" isn't simple.  I will
> argue that
> "extra-large pepperoni pizza" is a single word, no matter
> how it's written,
> because it's morphologically impenetrable -- you can't say
> "extra-large
> delicious pepperoni pizza" without it sounding odd or
> wrong.

Argue what you will, then.

Padraic


> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 1:48 PM, Padraic Brown <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
> 
> > --- On Sat, 3/23/13, H. S. Teoh <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
> >
> > > > I think it would be more useful to look at
> the words people actually
> > > > 1) recognize, and then 2) use.  If a
> word is in the OED, but is never
> > > > found in the general culture - or anywhere
> outside of obscure literary
> > > > backwaters - there's not a lot of practical
> difference between that
> > > > word being part of the language and being
> truly foreign.
> > > >
> > > > Technical terms exist in every language that
> needs them - adopted if
> > > > necessary.  So I don't think they should
> be counted. [...]
> > >
> > > The distinction is not clear-cut, though. For
> example, words like
> > > "oxygen" or "carbon monoxide" are clearly
> technical terms, yet in this
> > > day and age most people understand them even if
> they are non-chemists.
> > > And while most people *wouldn't* know what
> "monosodium glutamate" refers
> > > to, they *would* understand what its acronym "MSG"
> is.
> > >
> > > So where does one draw the line?
> >
> > Just popping in to say that me I'd draw the line broad
> and wide -- if the
> > word is now or has ever been an English word, no matter
> how ancient, no
> > matter how obscure, no matter how dialectical, no
> matter how foreign
> > seeming, then it gets counted. Just because a word is
> spelled with funny
> > little marks over some of the letters doesn't make it
> any less English.
> > MacKay said it best, of all our immigrant and newly
> coined words:
> > "[English] borrows, it steals, it assimilates what
> words it pleases from
> > all points of the compass, and asks no questions of
> them, but that they
> > shall express thoughts and describe circumstances more
> tersely and more
> > accurately than any of the old words beside which they
> are invited to take
> > their places."
> >
> > I see no problem at all with highly technical words or
> specialist words
> > and so also have no issue at all with older or more
> obscure terms. Like
> > with an honest census, if you're going to cut corners
> by arbitrarily
> > leaving out whole segments of the total lexicon, then
> any answer you
> > arrive at will be murchy cogging.
> >
> > We may never be able to say with absolute confidence
> "English has 849,423
> > words" -- we may never be able to say better than
> "English has something
> > like 850k words, give or take a few thousand". But it's
> better than lazily
> > saying "well, we didn't want to be bothered with all
> these horribly long
> > organic molocules; or foreign food; or any word that
> hasn't been used since
> > 1800; or any other word we just couldn't be bothered
> with -- so we just
> > ended up averaging the number of words per page in the
> AHD and hey presto!
> > English has 482,123 words!"
> >
> > The *only* line I'd draw a little bit narrow is obvious
> inflexional forms.
> > So, "car" and "cars" or "see" and "sees" don't count as
> two words -- both
> > have the same fundamental meaning. The only time a
> grammatical termination
> > should be counted as a word is if, for example, the
> plural of something
> > has a different meaning from the singular. For example,
> "men" where it has
> > the connotation of a team or a group of soldiers. I
> could be argued away
> > from this bit of line drawing, mind, if it proved to be
> to unuseful in the
> > context.
> >
> > Padraic
> >
> > > T
> >
> >
> 
> 
> -- 
> Second Person, a chapbook of poetry by Patrick Dunn, is now
> available for
> order from Finishing Line
> Press<http://www.finishinglinepress.com/NewReleasesandForthcomingTitles.htm>
> and
> Amazon<http://www.amazon.com/Second-Person-Patrick-Dunn/dp/1599249065/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1324342341&sr=8-2>.
> 

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