Two comments on this thread below:
On 2013-04-26 13:42, Kevin Hawkins wrote:
>> Exactly this question would be best answered with a separate attribute:
>> @where for single pages, from/to for a range.
> As I recall we didn't discuss this possibility at the Council meeting.
> While this could be a separate ticket as James's suggested, I actually
> suggest we have this discussion on this same ticket (
> https://sourceforge.net/p/tei/feature-requests/389/ ) because if we
> chose to implement Torsten's suggestion, doing so affects how we address
> https://sourceforge.net/p/tei/feature-requests/389/ as well.
I think we did discuss the possibility of introducing a new attribute to
disambiguate, fwiw, and decided against it. (That's not to stifle the
current discussion, just to say this possibility was considered.) We
also discussed what was meant when only the @from attribute was used,
and I personally don't think that (under the current proposal) it would
be strictly *wrong* to say <biblScope unit="page" from="12"/> for a
chapter that begins and ends on p. 12. What that attribute says is that
the chapter begins on p. 12, but it doesn't say where it ends (it might
or might not be this page, the end of the volume, or somewhere in
between). If the usual practice in this bibliography is to give the full
range, then this is probably a one-page article--an extrapolation that
humans have to make when looking at bibliographies all the time.
(If on the other hand you're tagging a bibliography for a library
catalogue or similar database that needs to be machine actionable [to
decide how many pages of a PDF to order from ILL or whatever] then you
may always want to be explicit...)
On 2013-04-26 14:23, James Cummings wrote:
> In addition I tend to muse theoretically on the view of this as
> points vs ranges slightly. (But only slightly!) When I say:
> when="1900" I'm being fairly imprecise if I mean a point inside 1900
> that I don't know specifically when it is. (As that is what
> @notBefore/@notAfter is for after all.) No, when I say that I mean
> 'for the entirety of 1900' so it is a range, not a point. Because all
> dating attributes are about 'time' really this will always be the
> case. When I say from="1999-03-17" to="1999-03-17" this is not a
> single point in time, it is a range of a day. Even if I extend this
> to from="1999-03-17T13:31:25Z" and to="1999-03-17T13:31:25Z" then it
> is still a 'range' of a whole second. Is this different if I had used
> @when since we are limited in W3C to single second granularity? I
> both cases I'm saying from the beginning of that second to the end of
> that second. But we tend to treat these things like points because it
> is convenient for the way we talk about them.
I'm not sure this distinction is very fruitful, is it? (Or true.) If I
say @when="1900" maybe I mean @from='1900-01-01'/@to='1900-12-31' ("this
event lasted the whole of the year 1900") but maybe I mean
@notBefore='1900-01-01'/@notBefore='1900-12-31' ("this event took place
at some point during the year 1900"). In fact I bet most of the time
people mean the latter, and see no reason to think they're wrong in
Likewise, "this article is (completely) on page 12" doesn't necessarily
imply that it fills the whole of page 12--I can think of many short
notes, abstracts, reviews etc. which appear several to the page, and you
just cite them by the page *within which* they fall.
This doesn't really effect the argument about the new @where attribute
though. As I see it the argument is that a new attribute would reduce
the redundancy of @from/@to (by parallel with @when in att.datable).
Wouldn't that also have the unfortunate side-effect of eliminating the
(in my opinion salutary) ambiguity of current @from usage, with the
result that all those people who have used @from only with various
possible meanings (usually either clear or unimportant to a human) have
files that are essentially broken?
I'm also not sure I like the name @where so much... maybe it works for
<biblScope>, but is it as appropriate for <citedRange> (which would also
inherit it from the same class).
Dr Gabriel BODARD
Researcher in Digital Epigraphy
King's College London
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